Re: DS is transgender ftm 16 and happy.

[crazyhat]

In reference to the suspended thread titled "DS is transgender ftm 16 and happy." I am the 16 year old, writing it from my mother's point of view, everything I said is true, and my mother and I stand by what I said. See, a few weeks ago she told me that when I first started transitioning, she came to mumsnet for help, and was met by people telling her to not endorse it, and other things that (with hindsight) are blatently transphobic. You are all free to your own opinions, I can't stop that. But I genuinely can't describe the feeling I have towards my body, it's such an extreme disconnect, and I know that transitioning is genuinely the only solution. I am very greatful that my parents support me, unlike many parents, evidently are on here. I'm sorry to anyone who feels decieved, but I was genuinely just doing it to have a sense of understanding of what my parents generation think, and to be brutally honest, it was borderline concerning. I feel sorry for people who's have to hear "advice" from some of you. However I, and my situation, is very much real.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/lgbt_children/3732775-DS-is-transgender-ftm-16-and-happy

Hi Crazyhat. I read some of the thread last night, but don't know why it was pulled. I'm sorry it didn't go how you hoped and I hope there was no transphobia (hatred of people who identify as trans). I did see there was a lot of opposition to some of the fundamental ideas behind the trans movement.

May I ask you a couple of questions?

1. What is gender?
2. What is a man and what is a woman? (Ie what is sex?)

I am really sorry for the feeling you're experiencing. The extreme disconnect sounds hard to cope with.

With respect, how can you know that transitioning is the only solution? I think a number of us are concerned that we know we saw things one way, very black and white, when we were teenagers, but with maturity and age has come a different understanding and appreciation of our bodies. My body can grow and feed a baby! That's awesome, even if when I was a teenager I hated periods, and unwanted attention, and worries about how it looked (I know that is nothing to an extreme disconnect, I am not trying to say they are equivalent). But I didn't see myself the same way at 16 as I do in my 30s.

I would be really concerned if you were my child, and you were doing anything to drastically change / damage the body you have (that I helped grow for you!) at only 16.

This thread will likely be pulled too and i'm sorry that you're experiencing distress about your body.

I reiterate the first response on this thread really, when I ask: what does it mean to be male? And how is this different to being female?

@wineismycarb I can't really explain it, however, i know I'm a man. It's nothing to do with social aspects, however I genuinely feel my body should be male. I know a lot of women are like "but I was a tomboy" but that is very different to thinking your body should be male. There is the brain sex argument, that people can be born with a male brain but a female body, there are limited studies on what causes transgenderism. However, in many cases it is nothing to do with the parents or surroundings.

Without sounding patronising, we have ALL been 16. And honestly, being 16 was awful for many of us. I was 100% convinced that if I could run away, it would 'fix' my problems.
Obviously I can look back and heave a great big sigh of relief that I didn't.
I can pretty much guarantee you that changing your body won't fix a mental issue.
Just like changing location wouldn't have fixed mine.

Wanting to protect children until they're adults isn't transphobia. I'm sorry you're going through such a disconnect, and hope you can find some peace.

Feeling a strong sense of disconnect from your body is very normal for teenagers. I urge you to wait. This is an irreversible step and for many of us the things that life seemed to hinge on completely at 17 are mildly embarrassing at 30. I know that's hard to believe now.

@doyouremeber I know I'm young, and there are a lot of women on here saying they used to be tomboys too, thank you for understanding it's not the same. I know transitioning is right as it's always been the way I envisioned my body, as close to male as I can get. When starting testosterone I was concerned that "WhAt iF I mAdE a MiStAkE!" But thankfully I didn't and it was just a last minute panic. The affects have completely improved my life in a way I can't explain. I know that top surgery is something I need, and currently hold no doubts.

There is no evidence supporting brain sex. So what you are describing is an emotion of dissatisfaction with your body. How can you be confident that this will change with surgery? Especially given your previous confusion about being non binary. It's fair to say that feelings change with time, you gave yourself as an example in fact.

This thread will also be pulled soon as mumsnet rules don't allow threads about deleted threads.

Of course anyone who disagrees is instantly branded transphobic.

And please stay on mumsnet, start a new thread that's not a TAAT (thread about a thread) keep talking about this with us.

@foreverfaff thanks for trying to "pretty much garuentee [me]" but you are evidently wrong as transitioning has helped me :) thx for ur concern tho

Thanks @crazyhat that's interesting.
But putting aside your feelings and experience for a moment, which I hear and understand are very compelling, could you say what you understand gender to be, and what you understand sex to be, objectively?

@crazyhat growing up I felt like that. I felt I should’ve been born a boy and felt so disconnected from myself. I didn't like my body and didn’t identify as female (subconsciously I think gender stereotyping still exists). I’m on my 30s now. I don’t mean to seem patronising but I just wanted to tell you how I felt growing up. I now accept I’m female but I care very little about gender stereotyping (my female kids wear clothes from the boy section and have short hair). I think a lot of people expressed concern as some of the changes suggested you can’t reverse and you’re still young. I hope you find peace with yourself.

@multiplemum3 not people who just disagree, people who go out of their way to be disrespectful, for instance, calling me she when I don't look like one.

I respect you very much for coming on here, and especially so for sticking around in the fact of such strong opposition.

My question is how much counselling did you have before taking any drugs or testosterone? And are you aware of the potential downsides and side effects to both T and a double mastectomy?

Whatever happens I hope you remain mentally well and happy. X

My armchair psychologist would say that the feeling of relief you are getting is from 'doing' something to help yourself. Placebo.
I would strongly urge you to stop taking T and try someth8ng else. We can help you find that something.

Oh sweetie. My heart goes out to you. I think something you might not realise is a lot of us who are now grown women, felt exactly as you do now when we were growing up - we just didn’t grow up in the current social climate and were allowed to work through the pains of adolescence and coming to terms with ourselves without being led to believe that the fact we didn’t fit in with feminine stereotypes meant we needed to change our bodies, or ourselves.

When you were pretending to be your mother, I wrote:

It sounds like he has a lot of negative associations with ‘being a girl’, I wonder why that is.

It doesn’t make sense that he ‘knows his body should be male’ if he can’t explain what male and female is to him though.

I don’t expect that he would necessarily have the answers btw - as you say, he’s 16, a child still really in terms of emotional maturity - but don’t you think he should be able to explain how it is he is male, before you, as the responsible adult, permit him to make permanent changes to his body?

And I really think you need to be able to honestly answer those questions - what is male and female, why do you believe you are male, what is it that makes you male, and why do you have such negative feelings around the idea of being female. This is what you should be exploring in great great depth, and many of us fear the current psychotherapy model of blindly affirming you is doing you a monumental disservice.

I hope you can see that the resistance to young people making permanent physical changes to their bodies, does not come from a place of hate or transphobia - rather a place of love and concern, because many of us know it would have been us twenty years ago, and we are so so grateful it wasn’t.

You are enough, just the way you are. You can be anything you want to be, in the body you have. You do not need to change anything about yourself to fit in with what the world is telling you a man or a woman is, or should be. You can just be you.

Do check out www.piqueresproject.com/ - four inspiring young people, who at 16 all felt exactly as you do now.

@wineismycarb i can't explain what gender and sex means to me. Obviously sex is the biological trait, but I can't explain why I feel mine is wrong. To reiterate, gender isn't to do with social stereotypes, but it's "an inner sense"

So you lied to everyone who posted on your thread - why would you do that? What point are you / your mum / whoever trying to prove?

@kyvia you did not feel the same as me. Don't say that if you were just a tomboy because that is not how I feel.

People are telling you that they've felt the same as teenagers and would have transitioned if they could but are so happy they didn't. The NHS states 80% of children outgrow this, how are you and your mum so certain you won't?

@familyofaliens I wasn't trying to prove anything, I just wanted to help people understand. However some people [yourself included] will never understand and that's fine, just get off this thread.

just get off this thread.

That’s not how it works on mumsnet, I’m afraid.