Re: DS is transgender ftm 16 and happy.

[crazyhat]

In reference to the suspended thread titled "DS is transgender ftm 16 and happy." I am the 16 year old, writing it from my mother's point of view, everything I said is true, and my mother and I stand by what I said. See, a few weeks ago she told me that when I first started transitioning, she came to mumsnet for help, and was met by people telling her to not endorse it, and other things that (with hindsight) are blatently transphobic. You are all free to your own opinions, I can't stop that. But I genuinely can't describe the feeling I have towards my body, it's such an extreme disconnect, and I know that transitioning is genuinely the only solution. I am very greatful that my parents support me, unlike many parents, evidently are on here. I'm sorry to anyone who feels decieved, but I was genuinely just doing it to have a sense of understanding of what my parents generation think, and to be brutally honest, it was borderline concerning. I feel sorry for people who's have to hear "advice" from some of you. However I, and my situation, is very much real.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/lgbt_children/3732775-DS-is-transgender-ftm-16-and-happy

@winsome it's more than a feeling but that's the closest way to describe it, I think @halvincarris explains it quite well, it's not really easy to explain, but it's certainly nothing to do with social stereotypes, however that does confuse some people

When I was your age op I took far too many mind altering substances, overdosed on painkillers, hated my female body and intended to be dead by the time I was forty.

Thankfully no one validated my "choices". I was young, clueless and depressed. I shouldn't have been abusing my body in the way I did and the adults around me did not affirm my behaviour.

I'm now mid forties with a partner, three children and a very fulfilling career. Thank god I grew up and grew out of my self harming behaviour.

I know that our situations are not identical. You may not see your actions as self harm (although nor did I, I had alot of fun in my teens and felt I was immune to the harms drugs can do).

But my point is that people your age do risky things, believe crazy things, feel great sadness and great exhilaration. You are a child who needs support to ride out the trials and tribulations of adolescence.

I wish you all the very best.

You have answered all the questions except the most important - your mind is still forming, you are being badly guided by adults around you - why don’t you wait for the surgery?

I get more and more the feeling we should!'t be calling gender dysphoria gender dysphoria, but body dysphoria. As stated here by op it is not about gender stereotypes for them but it is about feeling their body is wrong in relationship with their mind and how they see themselves.

This is why I don't understand why gd is no longer seen as a mental health problem. It is. Being transgender means you see your body differently to what it is. Solution is accept as is or change your body until you can accept it. For people who really are so distressed by their body they will take hormones and have surgery, that is the right solution for them. But as a last resort and after all others causes have been excluded.

Op, the fact you were depressed and taking T made you feel better, worries me. Depression in teens is common due to the change in hormones and brains. T elevates that for women. So is it the hormone or the transitioning that improved life for you?

I'm sorry I've only just really understood that the previous thread was really written by you OP.

That does indeed explain why there was that comment 'it would be his fault' which I think shocked all of us rigid; it certainly did me, as the parent of a 15 year old. We lost my husband/his dad last year and my boy is very mature and thoughtful for his age but the idea that he could really give informed consent to life altering cosmetic surgery at this age is truly comical. That would be my role as an adult. That's different from an abortion, cancer surgery or many other treatments. Not all medical treatments are the same.

I think it is very hard at 16 to have any concept of how much you change between 16 and say 21. I personally didn't grow up until I was 31 though I was unusually immature. However, I presented as having it all sorted.

These decisions are not your fault. They are you finding a solution presented to you by adults to an overwhelming problem. I hope very much that it does prove to be the right solution for your future happiness but I feel pretty certain that if the surgery were not available you would find another way to live. Humans are very resourceful.

Agreed. If you're so mature, why not wait? Why not give your brain time to develop? Effectively stamping your feet and saying you want it now kind of goes against the mature message.

This is actually devastating to read. You are a child making adult decisions. You’ve already poisoned yourself with testosterone meaning potentially irreversible changes, youve thrown away your fertility at an age where most girls think they’ll never want babies (statistically you will want your own one day) and you are planning to have drastic irreversible surgery to mutilate your body.

And the whole thing is approved and egged on by so called professionals as well as idiots on Tumblr.

I would have been you at your age, 100% certain of that. I’m now married with three children, I breastfed all of them, I still prefer jeans and boots to heels and a skirt and I love being a woman. But I would have leaped at the chance to ‘change sex’ right up until my mid twenties if it had been on offer.

You don’t know what you think you know.

That's a terrible analogy harris

If someone says to me 'it was a beautiful sunset' I'm able to look at my own experiences and work out what that means because I have seen them myself. Or even if I haven't I know what a sunset is and I have enough cultural reference to know that they are often beautiful.

Also why would anyone care if someone thinks a sunset is beautiful? It doesn't affect anyone else.

It's more like someone looking at a sunset, having a religious experience and then on the back of that trying to insist to everyone god is real and we must change our behaviour to please him.

@crazyhat
Just to send you a message of support .
I have a lovely friend who is in the process of transition from man to woman .
I’ve known her from childhood and she was a good friend of our daughter.
As puberty struck we saw each other less and less however over the last seven years have become close again .
It had been clear before this that there was unease and unhappiness though I was unsure why . At the stage she decided to transition her mother turned her back and she needed the help and emotional support of friends such as myself. Some turned their back and others didn’t . I’m closer to her mother’s age .
It was easy to support her decision as from the moment she started the transition her true personality emerged as finally she was being true to what she was . This was despite the estrangement from her mother .
Luckily Mum has now come round to the idea and though not fully supportive ( final surgery just before Christmas) things are much better for her . She’s accepted and respected in her career and has a good social life after being out in the cold for years .
All I can say is that anyone subjecting themself to hormone treatment and all the other interventions need to be totally committed , strong and determined . Rigorous psychological testing is a major component .
I’m so very glad your parents were supportive at the outset and wish you the very best on your own journey to realize yourself fully .

Thank you for coming on here @crazyhat.

Can I ask - was it mainly the physical aspect of being a man that you wanted? To have a penis, no breasts, facial hair etc, or is there also an intrinsically different mindset or approach to life that you feel is yours now you are a man?

I'd also love to know if you find people treat you differently. Are you less hassled, more respected? Does anyone assume you can do things that they assumed were beyond you as a female?

I feel so sad for you op. You are walking into a very, very limiting lifestyle choice. And it IS a choice.
If you were my daughter, I would be pleading with you not to do this. I would be throwing options at you, like travel, gap years, pulling strings to get you work experience in any place you wanted etc.
Please, will you consider the idea that you are wrong?

A sensation so strong, “more than a feeling” - but can’t be described. Or quantified. Let alone objectively measured.

It is heartbreaking that in cases like these medical science is no longer evidence based.

I read the thread last night.
I was and still am genuinely concerned for you. It makes me very sad to think of somebody so young making such a huge decision. I don't consider myself transphobic. It just makes me sad that trans people will be a minority, lonely, stigmatised and almost teased. And want something they can't actually have. And that in itself is lonely and isolating.

I didn't think the thread last night was that bad, at the beginning.

I bet this one will also get pulled aswell unfortunately.

@FamilyOfAliens

All the advice given on here, he has no doubt heard before. Or did you think you've come up with things that no one else in his life have thought of? He's heard it all before and it hasn't made a difference.

As for adopting, I know of fertile couples who choose adoption over having their own biological children and its worked out fine. Who knows, he might decide he doesnt want children in the future after all.

He doesn't have to engage with people who are being deliberately obtuse.

One thing I find interesting - If a teenage girl came on here and posted about how she was born a woman and identified as a woman, no one would tell her that she is too young/didnt know her own mind or that her feelings might change about this after she turned 25 and her brain had developed properly.

ForeverFaff I’d feel the same, the op’s parent did give consent required up to 18 for the surgery. It doesn’t help the op in this case as it was granted.

Your refusal to even consider that you may one day change your mind about being a parent to a biological child shows your immaturity- and I don’t mean that as an insult- at 16 of course you aren’t fully mature. You seem so certain that who you are now is the finished product (minus the rest of the transition process). It really isn’t.

@Majorcollywobble

She’s accepted and respected in her career and has a good social life after being out in the cold for years .

How did being more womanlike than manlike have this effect? This stinks of cognitive mental illness and your friends perceptions of social acceptance being completely out of kilter.

@Littlemeadow123

One thing I find interesting - If a teenage girl came on here and posted about how she was born a woman and identified as a woman, no one would tell her that she is too young/didnt know her own mind or that her feelings might change about this after she turned 25 and her brain had developed properly.

Come on. You know that’s a ridiculous equivalence. Teenage girls are going to be women. The OP will never be a man. This is just typical TRA mental gymnastics and work salad.

Word salad not work.

What bothers me is the refusal to accept that other people felt , as far as can be described , exactly like OP at age 16. until I was early 20's I knew I was a boy. I don't recall when that started.

I believe 100% that you feel happier now and that this is a direct result of medical intervention. And as a compassionate human being I am glad you are feeling better.

BUT, the implications of a medical / surgical solution extend way beyond your immediate happiness and have drastic implications for you as an individual and our society as a whole.

Why is "gender" dysphoria different from other dysphorias?

Most parents would be horrified if their child's happiness depended on having a healthy limb amputated.

And that child's belief would be regarded as a faulty perception that they "should" be disabled / disfigured.

I accept that there may be people for whom such radical intervention is the only way they feel their body is "right". I know that there instances where healthy limbs have been amputated! But that doesn't change the fact that it is a radical procedure to treat a faulty mental perception not evidence of biological mismatch caused by being born into the "wrong" body

Actually, I would love to know what the fictional teenage girl who "identified as a woman" actually meant by that.

Particularly people like Sam Smith... Done nothing to demonstrate he's nb.

This is an interesting comment. What should he be doing to demonstrate that he’s nb? And yes, I am aware the correct pronoun is they, however if he’s done nothing to demonstrate that he’s nb, he must be wrong, yes? You obviously think so as you used he instead of they. Why don’t you believe Sam Smith when he says he’s nb and this is his innate feeling?

I have no innate sense of gender, I literally cannot understand what you mean by it. How do you know you feel male? As you have a female body, how do you know what it feels like to be male?