Re: DS is transgender ftm 16 and happy.

[crazyhat]

In reference to the suspended thread titled "DS is transgender ftm 16 and happy." I am the 16 year old, writing it from my mother's point of view, everything I said is true, and my mother and I stand by what I said. See, a few weeks ago she told me that when I first started transitioning, she came to mumsnet for help, and was met by people telling her to not endorse it, and other things that (with hindsight) are blatently transphobic. You are all free to your own opinions, I can't stop that. But I genuinely can't describe the feeling I have towards my body, it's such an extreme disconnect, and I know that transitioning is genuinely the only solution. I am very greatful that my parents support me, unlike many parents, evidently are on here. I'm sorry to anyone who feels decieved, but I was genuinely just doing it to have a sense of understanding of what my parents generation think, and to be brutally honest, it was borderline concerning. I feel sorry for people who's have to hear "advice" from some of you. However I, and my situation, is very much real.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/lgbt_children/3732775-DS-is-transgender-ftm-16-and-happy

If you’re not impacted by these gender norms then that’s great for you, but you are wholly in the minority.

We're all impacted by these. But why do you think that the solution is to change men and women to fit the norms rather than strive to change society to accept diversity?

Ah yes, transphobia entails:
Logical thinking, not instantly believing what you are told.
The question why.
Recognising human biology and anatomy - not just genitals, but inner organs. Including the fact men have a larger heart and lungs. And more muscle mass. Even pre-puberty boys tend to do better than girls at sports.
Concern over children and vulnerable people making irreversible decisions that will scar them physically and mentally for life.
Recognising that the majority of violent crimes are committed by men.
Believing you cannot change biology in the literal sense.
Belief in free speech

Would be interested to hear how it is going in ten years time, OP.

Please remember anyone can pose as anything on the internet.

Do not assume someone is who they say they are. Do not allow yourself to be groomed.

I have to say this crossed my mind when I compared the NHS information about the treatment pathway for patients in the OP’s situation, and what the OP says about their treatment pathway.

PinkyU

I think your post explains it very well.

I too would be interested in a future follow up.

And I wanted to say communities like Mumsnet will be here if and when the rainbow promises turn to ashes and the glitter family turn their backs.

We care because we care. Not because we use people to validate our own choices.

well I can't be a women either, if I did detransition, I would be seen as a trans women, as my voice is low and physique male. So although I can never be a man, which I'm aware of, thanks, I can also never fully be a woman either.*

This is the safest thing I've herd in a long time- it's going to haunt me . I hope it won't haunt the op.
*

Saddest! Not safest

OP disagreeing is not disrespect. We understand you feel this way but everyone here is concerned you are making a decision that will be severely detrimental to your health. There are many people who have gone down this route only to find that it was not the answer. The long term effects of what you are proposing, particularly testosterone use, are dangerous and potentially life threatening.

You have failed to explain why, if you feel so strongly, you do not respect the feelings of others, such as Sam Smith.

I wish you good health and I sincerely hope you are happy

FamilyOfAliens Me too, however on the off chance the OP really is going through this, or that they may be in another country, I have erred in the side of perhaps they are who they say they are

BuzzShitbagBobbly

How interesting. So should we stop anyone from making life decisions until 25? So not allowed to get married, have children, make medical decisions about themselves, go to university and incur £50,000 of debts, join the armed forces and risk losing limbs or getting killed? How can they possibly make any of these decisions when they aren't mature enough or do you have a sliding scale in mind? At what age can the join the armed forces and risk losing their life or becoming permanently disabled do you think?

OP. My youngster is ftm trans and now 27, very happy and successful. Wishing you all the best in the world - you have a grand life ahead of you.

Women are plural and diverse and there is no single overarching definition of what it means to be a woman

If there is no single overarching definition of what it means to be a woman, then every human is potentially a woman and the term "woman" then loses all tangible and realistic meaning.

You are engaged in exploding a concept until it has no viability aside from some vague, nebulous and shifting concepts that cannot be used to inform or legislate.

So what will ultimately happen is that some other term will replace "woman" because biological sex differences need recognition in law and policy. You can't wish away physical differences through manipulating language in the name of equality.

@OldCrone I don’t, but we’ve spent multiple lifetimes attempting to challenge these norms with little gains, why shouldn’t there be alternatives available to a minority of people who are impacted in far deeper terms, whilst the rest of us keep on fighting?

Why should their mental health come at collateral damage because of patriarchy?

Im.not surprised testosterone makes you feel better. My cousin had to have it as an endometriosis treatment and felt amazing on it.

Detailing and nonsense aside, these thread have repeatedly made me think of Mark Twain

I wrote a big rant on the other thread yesterday before I got banned basically answering the question of what is the alternative to joyful medically fuelled acceptance.

I believe people should have to wait until 25 before medical and surgical transition. This is not because I am a pearl clutching cis mum, but because teenagers are notoriously desperate to nail themselves to their tribe and since forever have done daft things that they don’t continue into adulthood. This is not because teenagers are twats, but because this is a totally normal developmental stage.

Young adults start to turn outwards towards the world whereas teens are very much inward facing. Young adults have a vastly superior knowledge of sex, sexual and romantic relationships and a sense of self than teens (again, not because teens are twats , but because they are teens). It’s likely that the 13-16 year old who will “never change their mind” will grow into a 25 year old who has absolutely changed their mind, or is still playing the social role of the opposite sex but decides that giving up their sex life is too high a price for sex reassignment surgery.

Unfortunately one of the trademarks of being a teen is a solid belief that we know everything, particularly our selves (back to Mark Twain). The op has demonstrated her lack of maturity several times on the threads. (Being able to take months of work for elective cosmetic surgery in her 30s, not changing her mind because she hasn't changed it, not understanding sexual relationships, not understanding medical consequences) But is isn’t immature for her age, she is immature because of her age to make long term decisions that will have such a profound effect on so many aspects of her life because she is developmentally too young to do it. She may be legally old enough, but it’s the law that is an ass, not the child. If she was mature enough to make the decision, she would be mature enough to delay it. She isn’t. It’s a ghastly Catch 22.

Marfisa

How much experience of this hellhole world of dangerous pseudoscience do you have? Because many of us are battling it daily.

If I did not have a teen dd with MH problems I might have been ignorant of the extreme and extraordinary shift in advice / behaviour / language etc. that is now, not simply common, it is being policed!!

My DD attends a youth group for teens with MH problems and the convoluted extremes to which the leaders go not to offend anyone and accept every statement or belief is mind boggling.

Like every teen I've ever known, these young people are struggling with 'who they are' and how they want to present to the world. What they look like, what views they have etc. etc. Plus many have additional mental health problems and / or are neurodiverse.

But instead of adults having a supportive but challenging role in their lives, they are now completely hamstrung by 'woke' ideology and harmful guidance into simply accepting what each person says.

They strive to use the 'right' pronouns and encourage others to use them too - despite the frequent changes that some of the group exhibit. They advocate that the individual's feelings are the only valid opinion and that is that. If the individual feels male they are male, if they feel like an animal they are an animal ( there are otherkins in the group), etc.

My dd's difficulties are so severe that she is not able to attend school, and for this I'm extremely grateful (and I never thought I'd say that!).

Over time I have been able to have a gentle debate with her and subtly challenge the accepted ideology of the internet and the majority of paid professionals, and she has understood. She would now describe herself as gender critical and no longer thinks I'm a middle aged bigot.

She continues to respect individual's choices, but will now open up discussion with her peers. Her best friend identifies as a male, and DD uses his preferred name and pronouns, but now feels able to explain that she believes that BF does not have the wrong body, but is simply measuring themselves against the wrong notion of what it is to be a girl / woman.

It honestly terrifies me. Not because I can't accept people as they are, but because we are doing a disservice to a whole generation at risk of being actively pushed down the rabbit hole.

Medical intervention is just one frightening consequence of this.

I honestly think you are coming from a good place and trying to support your child.

Dustybun, OP doesn't have a child - they lied on the first thread.

Again the trans community is NOT the problem, the “divide and conquer” mentality of patriarchy is, THAT is where our ire should fall.

@alltheeyerolling you genuinely think people shouldn't be allowed to make big life decisions until they're 25? No? Oh just trans people, I see. Many people have to make life decisions before 25, I am fully aware of the consequences, but I simply can't wait till 25 for this.

Blindfromalltheeyerolling

What other life changing decisions should under 25s be banned from making?

well I can't be a women either, if I did detransition, I would be seen as a trans women, as my voice is low and physique male. So although I can never be a man, which I'm aware of, thanks, I can also never fully be a woman either.*

I can't find the original comment for this, there are so many. This makes me so sad. It may be worth considering a law suit for medical negligence. I don't think there is currently a procedure, but ethically you should've been offered psychological support for an extended period of time. You should need a recommendation from a psychologist who has been seeing you at least once a week for a year minimum. Who knows if you have any vulnerabilities that might affect your ability to make a sound decision. You might be able to change this. You are not a trans woman if you de-transition, you are a woman who has been through significant trauma. People may assume you are a trans woman due to the interference, but you are a woman. That cannot change, no amount of surgery or drugs can change that fact. I know this is going to be something you are stuck with for life and my comment maybe will seem meaningless and empty, but I support you and I admire you for what a strong woman you are for recognising this. And I will have the upmost respect for you if you do decide to transition. I recognise you as a strong woman who has been through trauma, others will too.

@justanothermammi i had weekly counciling at school a few weeks after coming out in the first year, then I saw a gender therapist in January if this year, and see one every 3 months where we discuss decisions and the consequences of them.

I know I won't grow out of it because I haven't.

But you are still 16, so you just don't know. I guess what worries me most, is that you are making irrevocable decisions about your body while you are still going through teenagehood. Teenagers mostly go through a disconnect with their bodies (I did) so you really won't know if this is right until you are in your mid-twenties. And of course, you must know that you can never fully become a man - only change your appearance so you have some male physical characteristics. You may want to be treated as a man by society but you are unlikely to be seen as a man by most people.

Please, please get some counselling, and wait until you are fully grown before doing anything irreversable.