Re: DS is transgender ftm 16 and happy.

[crazyhat]

In reference to the suspended thread titled "DS is transgender ftm 16 and happy." I am the 16 year old, writing it from my mother's point of view, everything I said is true, and my mother and I stand by what I said. See, a few weeks ago she told me that when I first started transitioning, she came to mumsnet for help, and was met by people telling her to not endorse it, and other things that (with hindsight) are blatently transphobic. You are all free to your own opinions, I can't stop that. But I genuinely can't describe the feeling I have towards my body, it's such an extreme disconnect, and I know that transitioning is genuinely the only solution. I am very greatful that my parents support me, unlike many parents, evidently are on here. I'm sorry to anyone who feels decieved, but I was genuinely just doing it to have a sense of understanding of what my parents generation think, and to be brutally honest, it was borderline concerning. I feel sorry for people who's have to hear "advice" from some of you. However I, and my situation, is very much real.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/lgbt_children/3732775-DS-is-transgender-ftm-16-and-happy

You're 16, you've made up your mind, you're too stubborn to admit anything else. Sometimes it just feels nice to be part of something.

Many of us on here have teenage or young adult children. It’s a tough road to walk, trying to support them to be independent thinkers while guiding them around the difficulties we have often experienced ourselves.

I think I know who would be most sympathetic to a young person deciding to detransition and it wouldn't be the TRAs.

Marfisa how can sex be a construct? When it’s biological reality.

I've just been reading Sara Ahmed's book Living a Feminist Life -- it's an excellent example of trans-inclusive feminism.

For goodness sake, changing a body permanently via surgery and medication so that it can never be recovered or able to bear or feed a child in the future is in no way comparable with terminating an unwanted pregnancy, when that body will have a very good chance of being able to bear and carry children in the future. Most women and girls are relieved by this solution and move forward easily enough. I really cannot comprehend how anyone could believe that it is in any way analogous.

Why is the be all and end all for you having children? Lots of women don't want to have children and it's not relevant really that lots of women move on after abortion with no regrets. They are adults who know their own minds and are able to make a decision weighing the pros and cons. You are saying that a 16 year old is not able to make such a decision so why are you ok with them making any life changing medical decisions for themselves?

Sex is biological - male or female. Gender is the set of stereotypes and cultural expectations imposed on us because of our sex.

Exactly! And until those cultural and stereotypical expectations are comprehensively removed, I can't see how it is ethical for mental health and medical professionals, to act with such certainty and implement medical procedures.

Sex is biological not a construct. People are peddling this dangerous stuff and look at the result. Mutilation at 16.

Marfisa how can sex be a construct? When it’s biological reality.

When you change the meaning of words to suit your agenda.

No, by 'committed' I mean I absolutely believe it to be true that trans rights are women's rights, and that that belief is at the core of who I am as a feminist. Women are plural and diverse and there is no single overarching definition of what it means to be a woman.

A woman is an adult human female. And trans people already have all the rights that anyone else has....I wish I could say the same for women.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras you're being a bit selective there as to the opinions you're responding to. My concern is nothing to do with maturity, it's about surgery being promoted and used to treat a psychological illness in children (and adults, but in this case a child)

Has anyone in your life tried to talk you out of it?

I’m concerned that I would have been herded down the trans pathway if I were a child today.

Women are plural and diverse and there is no single overarching definition of what it means to be a woman

The sex class of women is not so diverse that it includes men.

OP I’m also puzzled at your attitude to NB

And why you think Sam Smith should do anything to “prove” anything - particularly medical treatment, which needs to be thought about really carefully. If they don’t want medical treatment, what’s wrong with that?

FFS:

1. Abortion. One off event. Can still continue to have sex, have babies should they wish to.

2. Sterilisation/transition. Cannot be totally reversed. Can alter how that person has sexual relations.

One is a one off event. One is forever. Can you genuinely not see that?

It's important as a teenager to try to figure out where you belong.

It's completely natural to compare one's experiences to others and to find common ground to make sense of the world.

It's such a lightbulb moment for a when you find a community you connect with. It feels like everything suddenly falls into place. That the days of feeling like an outsider are over as you've finally found your people. It makes you realise why you felt like a square peg on a round hole all those other times when people thought you were a bit odd.

Young people have experienced this forever.

The thing that's so appealing about the trans community (as opposed to goths, punks, etc) is that the main commonality is the internal sense of not feeling 'right' and the fact that it is a protected characteristic in law. Unlike being a goth (because they used to get kicked in all the time and everyone would just blame them for dying their hair).

Being trans is not a protected characteristic in law.

Gender reassignment is.

I absolutely believe it to be true that trans rights are women's rights

Can you expand on this?

The context here is a ftm 16 year old. Are you just saying that someone born female should have the same rights as anyone else born female, even if they identify as a transman? If so, I agree with you.

trans rights are women's rights, and that that belief is at the core of who I am as a feminist. Women are plural and diverse and there is no single overarching definition of what it means to be a woman

What?

Many of us on here have teenage or young adult children. It’s a tough road to walk, trying to support them to be independent thinkers while guiding them around the difficulties we have often experienced ourselves.

I think I know who would be most sympathetic to a young person deciding to detransition and it wouldn't be the TRAs.

Sympathy wouldn't even be on the list of what they'd receive. I think that itself says enough. But just for those who are afraid to detransition, whether it's due to being afraid of the reaction or not wanting to admit you were wrong. I have so much respect for those who are courageous who have detransitioned and even shared their story. Remember it is the minority who will react horrifically, the majority with be extremely sympathetic and wish the absolute best for you. Many will admire you for your bravery.

@StealthMama

I'm addressing all of the posters who are patronisingly telling the op that they are too young to know the full impact of what they are doing and that they aren't mature enough to consent to medical procedures.

I'm asking why this should be any different to many other medical or life decisions that we fully support 16 year olds (or younger) making?

If they aren't mature enough to make these decisions then a responsible adult should be deciding whether a teen has an abortion, continues with a pregnancy, has or doesn't have treatment for cancer etc. They are all huge decisions that can have a profound effect on lives going forward yet I'm quite sure you would all argue that it's not right that an adult makes those decisions. I'm interested in what the difference is yet no one will answer. Presumably it's simply that you just don't agree with people being allowed to trans.

Hearhooves

Yes, we’re all aware of what you’re trying to do on this thread.

@FamilyOfAliens The sex class of women is not so diverse that it includes men.

This.

Ever thought of being a uni lecturer? 😅

Because if they are not mature enough to have an abortion are they mature enough to be a parent for the rest of their lives?

I didn’t see the thread but my thoughts on quickly reading your OP is that you’ve gone thru puberty. Therefore 🤷🏻‍♀️ up to you
What I am personally massively against is pre pubescent children making that choice in ways they can’t come back from
Anyway.
None of my beeswax. don’t want an argument

Hearhooves, maybe a better question for health professionals? Maybe the doctors who refuse to sterilise women in their 20s who don’t want kids because ‘they will change their minds - everyone does’ could have a chat with the ones handing out testosterone to teenage girls? Find a middle ground?

Presumably it's simply that you just don't agree with people being allowed to trans.

Do you think that people can change sex?