I would appreciate some advice for a 7yo who identifies as F2m.

[Ginburee]

My first ever thread despite having lurked for years.
My 7yo daughter (and yes we use pronouns ATM) has lived as a boy since she was 3/4. Wears nothing but clothes bought in the male section and plays with stereotypical boys toys.
We have been totally child led and supportive and now we are heading to junior school am on the edge- do I see the GP and get a referral or carry on as we are?
She desperately wants to be a boy but had never specifically said she is one but we had an almighty tantrum on holiday as she didn't want to wear the rash vest that went with her shorts and just wanted trunks.
I am really open to her seeing other people but have been having an email conversation with GP and they have no idea what to do with a trans child so will refer on.
I am heading into unknown territory, hubby is supportive to a point but thinks if we have a referral they will 'push more trans issues' and he feels we should carry on as we are.
My child easily passes for a boy and has an adaptable name that she has been using for the last few years.
I could really do with (a massive gin and a big hug) and some advice from people who have been there.

I loved having short hair, loved boys clothes and had a BMX and climbed trees and made dens...I was just a tomboy! I now love make up and pink things. Let her explore and just be herself.

No Cherrytart I have not (provided a gender neutral environment) sadly I have lots of issues with who does what but that is another thread

Actually, it seems like this is really the crux of the issue OP. I am not saying this in a blame type way - the society that we all live in is not gender neutral, just wandering around the supermarket one is exposed to blue/pink categorisation of all sorts of stuff. However, you har identified that you have issues with gender stereotyping yourself - your daughter sounds very intelligent and observant, she has picked up on this, naturally. 'Being a girl' can seem restrictive - sit and play quietly, be polite, behave, look pretty, concede to others..... 'being a boy' sounds much more fun - rough and tumble, active play, contact sports, being strong, being listened to. What child wouldn't prefer to 'be a boy' if they perceive the world as treating boys in the way they would like to be treated?

Clearly you care deeply about your child's happiness, but it doesn't really sound like she's that unhappy from what you post? She sounds like an active, intelligent girl with a deep sense of equality/social justice - just not yet the capacity or experience to translate that against a confusing world that both constantly reinforces gender stereotyping and also tells her girls can become boys if they want to, or that perhaps her body could be 'wrong' and she could have surgery to make it 'right'.

Your question in your OP was should you ask for a GP referral (to CAMHS or a gender identity service I assume) or carry on as you are. I would say neither. I would not medicalise her, because there is nothing wrong with her and she does not need fixing. However, I would gently be challenging her worldview and exploring the issues with her from a gender critical viewpoint - looking at strong/active female role models is a brilliant start - England (assuming you are English here!) are the current world champions in women's cricket. The rugby World Cup is currently being played in Ireland, you could watch some matches this weekend. Nicola Adams the Olympic boxer now turned professional, bucking gender stereotypes all over the shop. She's interested in history - does she know about the Sufragettes? Women's Land Army? Giving her hair to charity is a wonderful thing to have done at such a young age, and her interest in who she was helping not being restricted by their sex is hugely admirable. Does she know about Malala Yousafzai? Exploring how women and girls are treated differently in society to men and boys - focusing on the social attitudes, rather than assuming this is down to inherent qualities of the sexes. Address sexuality in an age appropriate way - relationship and family models other than heterosexual. Start to explore social justice issues more widely perhaps, issues of race and poverty etc.

To summarise, I would suggest you should

1. Consistently reassure her there is nothing wrong with her, or her body
2. It is ok to not want to be treated 'like a girl' - start to challenge ideas of 'like a girl/boy' and explore stereotyping
3. Explore role models like all those listed above
4. Challenge and explore gender stereotypes wherever you see them together. Confirm to her the fact she is female is not a barrier to any of the things she wants to do - she can wrestle, play football, have short hair, read bloody Horrid Henry. These things are not 'for boys' or 'for girls'. They are for anyone who likes wrestling, football, short hair or irritating children
5. Gently correct any misunderstandings she is picking up about gender and sex, and what is and isn't possible. I think the cruellest thing about 'transing' children (I hate the term) is leading children to believe that it is possible for them to 'change sex' - it is just setting them up for a lifetime of inadequacy. If she believes that a woman having a mastectomy makes them a man - explain that no, then she would be a woman without breasts, with surgical scars and unable to lactate. If women's breasts are large and causing problems they can be reduced in size to make them more comfortable. And so on.

You sound like a deeply caring mother, and I'm sorry if you feel that some gender critical posts are not supportive. But absolutely, rather than acknowledging your own biases and saying they're not relavent here - I feel it's all going to be part and parcel, and the way to go is to focus on the bigger picture, as a whole family - your husband needs to be on board too.

I am so worried that we have reduced the sexes to old fashioned stereotypes and we are medicating children who step outside the box.

^This

Karma, you say its not about wearing pink and liking fairies and then use those two exact examples as to why he is girl like
I hate pink and have never worn a tutu. As a child I frankly would have despised any adult who appeared to think that was what made me a girl
Being female, for me, is about being incredibly strong and powerful, inyelligent, good at diy, good at multitasking, very sporty. Is this boy you think should be a girl like this? If not, am I really male?

I only really identified with boys in books and films when I was a child. Thats because the girl characters were nothing like me. It was the boys who were clever, brave, adventurous, funny, sporty, a laugh, had fun. Of course, now I see that was shitty sexist adults writing books or not telling me about the real women out there who were like me
Op, how many of those real women does your daughter know about yet? I became obsessed with female adventurers and spies after a while.

I dressed as a boy and liked "boys' thi gs" from younger than I can remember until I was about 12. I was called a tomboy.

I am horrified that children like me these days have to deal with adults questioning their gender as it can lead to sterilisation at a young age.

The number if genuinely gender dysphoric people is way smaller than the number of girls and women who are rejecting siciety' s ideas of what it is to be a woman. Doesn't make them any less female.

Please be careful. If you equate liking supposedly boys things with actually being a boy you could be pushing her down a dark path even though you think you are being accepting.

Can you find examples of awesome women who don't conform to gender steteotypes so you and she can see there's more than one way to be a girl and thete' s nothing wrong with her?

Karma it is not that he likes pink and fairies

then...

So we saw him jumping in trampolines wearing tutus, being dressed as a fairy at the shops, etc

Both sexes can wear any clothes they like, have any personality. My little girl would never have been caught dead in a tutu, she is female.

Sexist stereotypes do not define your sex, that is fixed. We need to challenge harmful stereotypes, not medicate children who don't conform.

'daddy didn't agree with her not wearing a rash vest as didn't want her 'topless'

She has been sent messages that girls are different, less than boys and their bodies are shameful and need to be covered. It's no wonder she says she wants rid of her breasts. They make her daddy uncomfortable and she can't do and wear what she wants.

OP you said you wanted to hear people who have had similar experiences. Many have come on to tell you that they felt the same at the same age (or their sister, or their daughter did) and they grew out of it.

You have received advice and reassurance but I get the impression you just want to be told your daughter is clearly trans. That's not what support and advice is about.

She's 7. Let her be.

I think a lot of this is down to parents who are terrified their child might turn out to be gay.

Note the OP who quickly rejected the research provided. Would rather explore the possibility of ftm transition than consider homosexuality.

"daddy didn't agree with her not wearing a rash vest as didn't want her 'topless'

She has been sent messages that girls are different, less than boys and their bodies are shameful and need to be covered. It's no wonder she says she wants rid of her breasts. They make her daddy uncomfortable and she can't do and wear what she wants."

Absolutely this.

Just read OP said she was feeling a bit emotional last night and will read the links.

Your daughter is fine - there's no need for panic!

@Showandtell please DFOD

She's doing her best & asking for advice and support & asking questions and now you're accusing her of being homophobic

Nice.

I think you are reading that into what I've said. It's a possibility no pare t of a trans child ever wants to consider.

terrified their child might turn out to be gay

Erm, no. Not reading into that statement at all........

At 7 my DD wore trousers and t shirts. She played with boys toys and her hair at her insistence was ultra short.
At 17 she is still into wearing jeans and a t shirt and still loves boys toys but has long hair and full make up.
Ds used to dress up in dresses and had long hair. Despite being dressed in joggers and trainers and a t shirt and having short hair and is looking forward to a career as a builder. Like his mother.
If this was now instead of 10 + years ago and I wasn't so laid back they would have both been on pills and potions to reassign their gender.

I agree there are children that are born in the wrong bodies but I think they are truly few and far between

I didn't mean the above comment to be confrontational. You just need to think about it and all the other subtle message she receives about gender roles. The Pink Brain Blue Brain book by neuroscientist Lise Eliot is fascinating. She argues that infant brains are so malleable that small differences at birth become amplified over time, as parents and teachers and the culture at large unwittingly reinforce gender stereotypes.

It says that children's understanding of gender below 7 is limited to the clothes they wear and the length of hair and they think changing these means changing your gender.

I think all you can do at this stage is keep reminding her that girls and women can do anything they want and that it is absolutely fine for a girl to want to be a footballer, have a train set, read Horrid Henry etc.

Also worth mentioning that these days men can get married to men and women can get married to women. And make sure you loudly resist all gender stereotyping (including from your DH).

Whenever you hear gender replace it with stereotype, that is all it is, a sexist stereotype, a list of behaviour, a performance.

We should be trying to smash stereotypes, not reinforcing them.

Oh dear lord all the reasons on here why a girl is a boy. Wrestling, not liking long hair, liking horrible histories ffs.

My daughter likes a mix of those things. She likes to be comfortable in clothes. Her best friend wears boys clothes and won't wear anything "girly" - she does Tai Kwon do and has a pull up bar in her bedroom. No one thinks she is a boy.

Your comment that your husband "didn't want her topless" wtaf. What's wrong with "don't want you burned"????

Sorry OP I know your concern comes from love but it also seems to come from a very gendered understanding of what being a "girl" means.

I also think you should have her assessed for ASD, as this stuff is very common.

And my 10 yo knows all about sex and puberty but has no idea that you can have breasts removed, other than for cancer treatment. Find out how she knows this. Seriously.

Totally agree with thethought fox. If she has a younger brother and sister, it sounds like she sees her parents interacting differently with her siblings, and would rather get the interaction her brother gets than her sister gets.

Also, maybe watch the "gender free school" programme on tv with her - smashing Kids perceptions of what girls and boys can do and grow up to be

The topless comment was just weird. Couldn't imagine saying that to my dd exactly same age.

'Put on your rash vest so you don't burn' would cover it

I mean this kindlybut you need to give your head a massive wobble.

Stop making an issue out of nothing. Go and see your GP? Because your Dd likes wearing shorts and didn't want a vest.....?

When I was her age I was the same, wore boys clothes, had short hair, was known by a boys name (actually still am), spent my days riding my bmx and climbing trees and fighting. I wanted to be George from The Famous Five.

Thirty years on I'm very happy been a woman.

You just let her be who she wants to be without thinking that she must be trans because she likes xyz.