I would appreciate some advice for a 7yo who identifies as F2m.

[Ginburee]

My first ever thread despite having lurked for years.
My 7yo daughter (and yes we use pronouns ATM) has lived as a boy since she was 3/4. Wears nothing but clothes bought in the male section and plays with stereotypical boys toys.
We have been totally child led and supportive and now we are heading to junior school am on the edge- do I see the GP and get a referral or carry on as we are?
She desperately wants to be a boy but had never specifically said she is one but we had an almighty tantrum on holiday as she didn't want to wear the rash vest that went with her shorts and just wanted trunks.
I am really open to her seeing other people but have been having an email conversation with GP and they have no idea what to do with a trans child so will refer on.
I am heading into unknown territory, hubby is supportive to a point but thinks if we have a referral they will 'push more trans issues' and he feels we should carry on as we are.
My child easily passes for a boy and has an adaptable name that she has been using for the last few years.
I could really do with (a massive gin and a big hug) and some advice from people who have been there.

I read horrible histories as a child.
I played football and cricket (with boys) representing my school.
I have always found males easier to get alon with.

I have a vagina and I'm definitely a woman Not conforming to gender stereotypes isn't being transgender.

Your expectations of a 'girl' do seem limited OP. Horrible Histories - really!

This reminds me of a thread a few years ago where a parent was saying that her son was identifying as a girl at the age of 4 and they were calling him 'lucy' I think and using feminine pronouns etc, it turned out that he was the fourth boy and she couldn't have any more children and was desperate for a girl ... I hope it was a troll thread.

Its also worth considering what she gains from this, perhaps making her own space apart from her younger sister, perhaps competing for attention
I say that, although as someone never feminine, it didnt seem relevant to my choices.

I think unless you have lived with a child in crisis it is difficult to appreciate that it isn't just a matter of girls who are tom boys. It is a much more visceral thing, and whilst I appreciate some people do not believe children can know their own minds or understand what their gender is, the reality is much too complicated to begin to describe.

I think if all you can offer is sarcasm and flippery it makes more sense not to post on these kind of boards.

Be kind.

Well said @Ledbury

As a very long time poster I rarely come on MN anymore as 'kindness & support' seems to have been over taken by sarcasm & snide remarks.

Such a shame.

she had a massive fit in holiday as daddy didn't agree with her not wearing a rash vest as didn't want her 'topless' even though she has a pretty good 6 pack

You don't have a DD problem, you have a DH problem.

I am besmused that you think shorts , rash vests , football and Horrid Henry are for boys - they are for children.

I wonder how much of this would be solved by

1. You and your husband / partner assigning a gender to clothes, toys and hobbies

1. You talking to you DD about how boys and girls can wear anything , read any book and play any sport they want. And although some people believe that some things are only for boys / girls, we know that that's silly . And wrong because it can make people feel bad about themselves .

I think you can't expect to be supported if you say daft stuff i.e. She reads horrible
Histories therefore she must really be a boy
People are exasperated at what's going on and rightly so.

My dsis wore boy's clothes, had a boy's name she chose and looks like our brother's twin in every photo until she was about ten. Dm and df bought her the stuff she liked to wear and play with it didn't matter whether they were traditionally boy's stuff or not. They similarly indulged our youngest sister who would only wear pink and pretty stuff.
Dsis ditched the boy's name and clothes by the time she started secondary and we laugh about her "boy" phase especially the dodgy haircuts.
She's a happy woman, a mum and soon to be grandma nowadays. Your daughter may very well do the same if you don't push her onto a path that she might not be able to get off.

mrskeats choice of reading material was given as an example, I would hazard OP's situation is more complicated.

people are exasperated by what's going on and rightly so I'm not sure I understand this.

I agree that children who grow into adults with dysmorphia probably do 'know' early in life.

But there must be a big overlap with 'Tom boys '

The majority of gay men I know knew their sexuality even before they knew what any kind sexually was!

The thing is that gender is fluid. We can't know if identification will move back and forth

See the film Ma Vie en Rose. Totally lovely, about young boy who knows he wants to be a girl / is a girl.

It's not unkind to suggest that a primary aged child that rejects gender stereotypes is probably not trans.

This is the 2nd thread in as many days.

Encouraging a child to mutilate their body is abusive

Bloody hell my dd is 7 and as you describe

I've never really given it a second thought

I find how you interpret her behaviours really odd.

Right, for a start no-one, absolutely no-one can say that you don't have a trans child, they don't know her or you. Mumsnet is not the best place for support on this.

Gender dysphoria can happen in young children.

If the GP can refer you to CAMHS it would be a good start. They can refer you to the Tavistock clinics (depending on where you are) who can make a proper assessment. Things like blockers etc won't be given without plenty of assessment and discussion. Most children revert to their birth gender before adulthood, but just keep on supporting her and let her wear what she wants etc as you have been.

If you are on Facebook there is a group for parents of transgender children, feel free to PM me if you can't find it.

Choice of hair length and reading is so not the point.
Exasperated by all the bandwagon jumping.
This question would never have come up a few years ago. It's an agenda being promoted by people like Mermaids. Incidentally the founder had her son castrated abroad. But I'm guessing that's ok too. Maybe he would have grown up to be a gay man but that's not allowed now.
Forgive me for being angry at all this

Maybe DH and I have issues as both of us don't approve of small girls wearing little clothing. On holiday Dd5 ( who is a unicorn btw) and Ds3 wore swimming costume/rash vests - I would not let DD5 wear a bikini as it is tacky.
We have all gender toys/clothes and do not push any of it on our kids.
I found a 'trans' area on here tonight and I was crying as I posted because I really don't feel this is a phase, or a tomboy and wanted some support. This is something I have been living through for sometime.
Thank you to the people who have given support.

My DD's watch horrible histories and my younger DD's first box set book collection was diary of a wimpy kid, she has every single one and waits for the nesting to come out. This DD hated reading but loved diary of a wimpy kid books. She also isn't into dresses and prefers jeans.
Always has been.

According to my SMIL, my SSIL wanted to be a cat aged around six/seven and proceeded to live like a cat, crawling on all fours and meowing and eating on the floor for a couple of years. She's a fully functioning adult woman now with a professional career and dresses and behaves like a human and speaks normally.

I'd agree with your DH & let DD get on with it personally and carry on as normal.

Are you seriously suggesting Horrid Henry and horrible histories are 'for boys'

Fuck me. Your dd sounds cool, it sounds as though you and your dh have the problems.

Sorry op but you seem to have a lot of baggage around what girls can and cant do. If a Prepubescent boy can wear trunks, why not a girl? Its all I ever wore as a child on the beach. Its the norm in mainland europe from what I see on holiday. Would you say your husband and you are quite stereotypically masculine and feminine?

Hang on, so your actual boy wears rash vests yet when your girl refuses, this is an example of her wanting to be a boy? Your head!

Fwiw, dd3 wore boys clothes until very recently. She plays football, has all the horrid Henry books and we all love horrible histories. Her friends were mainly boys. She has posters of footballers in her room, she likes bottle flipping and match attax.

It has never ever occurred to me that she might actually be a boy because I am an intelligent, rational person.

I must have missed the part about the 'Op' agreeing to mutilate her child.

I doubt very much she's ever been in this situation regarding how best to help her DC.

That IS after what she's asking, not for the number for a plastic surgeon who will operate in minors or the name of puberty blocking medication so she can buy it on eBay.

I believe she probably stepped out of lurking to ask for support and advice.

I Am sure she's considered all paths to move forward and all possible final outcomes and that this might be a phase or it might not. It does not matter because RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME SHE DOES NOT KNOW.

Maybe she does need advice re how to help her DH. I know mine sometimes needs reminded that eldest DD wears red nail polish because it's her favourite colour and not because it's sexual or that middle DC prefers not to use public toilets because when she goes to the Female ones, someone comments. She looks like a 15yr old male so why wouldn't they.....

DH hasn't been a parent before either. We're all just scrabbling about trying to quickly learn how to do the most important jobs of our lives and trying NOT to fuck it up.

It's a minefield being a parents REGARDLESS of what path any child chooses to take.

She doesn't sound remotely pushy.

She sounds like a mother, asking for advice and support in EXACTLY the same way anyone else would under any other circumstance for example if their child was G&T or if their child was needing additional support or had a disability or was left handed or had a lisp or choose to howl at the moon.

There is some kind of reassurance to know that your DC isn't the only one to do anything. Not just this.

You come to MN to get anonymous advice & support because it's natural to doubt yourself when ANYTHING is slightly different from average.

And good for her for having the courage to ask rather than blundering on.

If anyone can give just one ounce of advice or direction then we've helped rather than being judgemental & shaming her into thinking she's doing wrong by her precious DC.

Shame on you.
Shame on you indeed.

I am actually ashamed of being part of this forum for the first time in 10years.

And I'm a tough nut to crack.

OP because your daughter is refusing things YOU think are for girls and prefering things YOU think are for boys that does not make her a boy.

Allow your child to be a child and enjoy it. Do not get so caught up in deciding she is trans it will ruin her childhood.
Revisit the subject once she has gone through puberty if she expresses distress regarding her sex/body/sexual orientation.

Transing children is wrong and should not be encouraged.

Is your daughter actually unhappy though OP. I dont understand why you would start her on this treadmill of trauma if all she wants to is potter about in boyish clothes, play rough games and have short hair. Why cant she just do that?

I think that something which might help OP is exploring role models for her of women/girls who are tough, who are sporty, who fit more "masculine" stereotypes? And yes to embracing the clothes and hair, there is nothing wrong with clothes and hair. Show her that she can have her interests and still be her. She doesn't have to be a boy to do those things. You don't have to reject the notion of her being trans or genderfluid but it's just about exploring options. All other things being equal, I think anyone would agree it would be better not to need surgery or hormones, so it's worth opening up doors/paths/discussions, rather than thinking it's one or the other; that she grows out of this phase, becomes a "proper girl" and likes "girl things" or she is really a boy and will eventually need hormones and surgery to support that. In reality isn't that simplistic? I don't think most people are so one dimensional that they only like things associated with one gender, unless they are pushing against something to make a point.

I would also make sure that you talk openly about gay relationships, if you have not already.

And maybe have a look at the book Delusions of Gender. Watch that BBC programme which was on the other night (with her maybe? Might be interesting to see what she thinks about it.) Have a look at the website transgendertrend.