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Legal matters

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Brother’s actions and inheritance

177 replies

Kushiyaki · 11/09/2024 13:16

I’m not sure what to do about this situation which has blown up since my last surviving parent passed away recently.
Seven years ago, my DD ( asd) inherited some money ( about £100k). For various reasons, I entrusted DB to keep it for her in his account until DD became an adult as my own finances were shaky. I have texts showing that he agreed and that it was DD’s money. Our relationship fell apart during early Covid era and he demanded that I take the money back but I said I couldn’t right now but I would do soon. I also found out that DB was pissed off that he had not been left anything by that person at the time. DB and his DW are both magic circle trained lawyers with huge savings ( worth millions together). I am a lone parent living on DDs DLA basically ( my ex was abusive and fully absent ) and full time carer to DD.
Over the past three years DB and I would text about majorly important things. The lines of communication were open even if the socialising was over.
Fast forward to this year, DB was pissed off about me declining a family invite ( it might have been an olive branch invite but I never wanted to start socialising with them again). Without telling me, DB transferred my DD!s money into our widowed parent’s account electronically, giving neither of us a say. Parent ( terminally ill, elderly) said it was because DB was pissed off about declined invitation and told me to take the money back before they died.
Now I did not feel that DB had the right to do that without my consent so I said that as far as I was concerned, my money was still in their account along with the other hundreds of thousands they have in savings. DDs money was not distinguishable from the rest of their savings but it was sent to an account belonging to parent with nothing else in it. My DDs gift would also have been tax free by this stage.
Now, surviving parent has died and DB is being obnoxious about it, saying it is irrelevant and nothing to do with them and that they will talk to the one other beneficiary about the possibility of them agreeing to me getting it back ( DB and I are co executors).
My questions are:
Can DB actually argue that he had a right to do this to DD’s money without my consent? I wouldn’t have agreed to it and I would have taken it back but he never asked?
can I pursue DB to give the money back from his account. I think it was a really dumb and or mean thing for a lawyer to do
As a co executor, do I really need the permission of the third beneficiary who is not an executor for DD to have ‘her’ money back? I gave emails from parent about the money and wanting to transfer it and it states that the money is DD’s and the amount.
DB is putting pressure on me to resign as co executor. They have all the certificates, bank statements etc and won’t show me anything. There was a weekend of ugly emails where they mocked my DDs disability, my parenting, my lack of finances, not taking responsibility etc and not for the first time. I felt they were gaslighting me because I am actually right.
As executor, could I approach the bank with what I have and ask to be given control over the money? I know DB has applied for probate but I understand that you can sometimes sort things out before it is granted?
I’m really worried for DD’s future as that money was hers, it was tax free and it may be vital to her survival in the future. I worry that DB and SIL Will use it for paying death duties and carry on using their vast savings for their bunch of kids ( all privately educated, luxury holidays, recently dropped £10k on a Taylor Swift weekend, you get the idea).

OP posts:
GladBlueSlug · 11/09/2024 15:16

I can not fathom how you can be so rude and blame your own stupidity on your brother. You are deluded.

orangegato · 11/09/2024 15:22

Yeah maybe keep your mouth shut or else your fundamental dishonestly might get you into trouble.

You clearly wanted the money away from you to screw SOMEONE over, whether that be your ex or the tax payer. I’ve lost my tiny violin, sorry.

pinkyredrose · 11/09/2024 15:23

I had/ still have no idea about how to open a trust

A cursory amount of research would have told you this. Why did your own 'shaky' finance's mean that you couldn't open a trust, surely one doesn't have anything to do with the other?

CharlotteLucas3 · 11/09/2024 15:29

This was so silly op. What if your brother had died?

sunseaandsoundingoff · 11/09/2024 15:30

Hoppinggreen · 11/09/2024 13:55

Is it subject to IHT then?
Was it an attempt to avoid it or some other form of taxation I wonder?

Edited

Well, they should have paid tax on it both when it went into DB's account and when it went into the parent's account, since you can't gift anyone anything over £3k. I doubt they declared it either time.

Waystation · 11/09/2024 15:34

OP - you have been very foolish here - you will need to ensure your DD gets the money back - all of it not 2/3rds - even if you have to pay it back out of your inheritance- it’s your responsibility- your DD was a child and effectively you “lost” her money - your DB is not responsible as he told you what was happening and you still did nothing about it - it’s shocking you have been so irresponsible with your DCs money!

Mathsbabe · 11/09/2024 15:35

I'm not a lawyer but I am an accountant. You have evidence of that money being your daughter's I think you can argue that the money belongs to your daughter and must be repaid in the same way any other liability must be settled before the remaining assets are distributed to the beneficiaries.

MildredSauce · 11/09/2024 15:41

And NOW you're grubbing around looking for a free 30 mins with a lawyer???

Make an investment into making a decent decision for once in your life. It appears you've tried to be too clever/evasive once too often.

mummymeister · 11/09/2024 15:47

I am guessing that you didnt want your DD or you to have this £100K tied to your names because then you wouldnt get certain benefits. Thats fraud.

I cant think of any other reason why as a grown adult you couldnt have opened up a savings account in your dds name and transferred the money in right at the start.

betterangels · 11/09/2024 15:51

This is all your doing because you wanted to hide money. Your poor daughter.

SomethingUniqueThisTime · 11/09/2024 15:54

Sounds like you have brought this on yourself. Presumably the transfer of the money (originally given by one of your parents) to an account in your brother’s name was to enable benefit fraud, or hiding assets during your divorce, or tax evasion. I have very little sympathy.
To me it seems right and proper that it’s now assessed as part of your parents estate, and no doubt the reason your brother had transferred the money back to one of your parent’s accounts. As a ‘hot-shot’ lawyer it would have been a huge risk for him to have been part of this fraud.

GladBlueSlug · 11/09/2024 15:57

SomethingUniqueThisTime · 11/09/2024 15:54

Sounds like you have brought this on yourself. Presumably the transfer of the money (originally given by one of your parents) to an account in your brother’s name was to enable benefit fraud, or hiding assets during your divorce, or tax evasion. I have very little sympathy.
To me it seems right and proper that it’s now assessed as part of your parents estate, and no doubt the reason your brother had transferred the money back to one of your parent’s accounts. As a ‘hot-shot’ lawyer it would have been a huge risk for him to have been part of this fraud.

Edited

Exactly. It’s the only sensible thing to do. OP refuses the money for 7 years, so he transferred it to where it came from or tve nearest place.

Araminta1003 · 11/09/2024 15:57

“As a co executor, do I really need the permission of the third beneficiary who is not an executor for DD to have ‘her’ money back? I gave emails from parent about the money and wanting to transfer it and it states that the money is DD’s and the amount.
DB is putting pressure on me to resign as co executor.“

Don’t resign as co-executor. Could they not want you on it because they think you are financially hopeless, given past apathy?

I think you need to make amends with your DB and get him to agree that this 100k is outside the estate and always was. In any event, he will have to decide how it was entered on the probate form.

The money needs to go into an account for your DD asap - ideally into an ISA every year at the max amount to gain the max interest, tax free. You need to go organise all of that in case your DB is just fed up of your apathy.

friendlycat · 11/09/2024 16:04

This really is not as simple as you are trying to make out.

There are quite a low of ramifications now with all of this and you definitely need your DB onside to see if this potentially can be resolved. There are legal issues here that are way beyond what you think you may have agreed with your brother.

Is this money still outside the estate and within the 7 year rule or is it now within the estate and subject to IHT etc?

You obviously didn't want to take the money and set up a trust for your DD which you should have done initially. Your DB approached you to take the money and you didn't. Presumably this is all linked to your own benefits etc.

Floralsofa · 11/09/2024 16:06

Did you have your brother keep it in order to still qualify for benefits?

Maurepas · 11/09/2024 16:06

You were very careless and completely thoughtless regarding DD inheritance.
By the way - money does not grow on trees or if you prefer ''There is no magic money tree'' - one needs to take responsibility if a minor inherits i.e. your child - you have not done so.

Trumptonagain · 11/09/2024 16:06

Your DB/DIL both being lawyers should have known better...
Maybe they were worried of being found out about helping you hide the money.

You're probably not as pissed off as taxpayers are knowing that you've had access to this money while, possibly
fraudulently, claiming DLA for your DD when she had 100k in savings.

Hoping it's wrong in assuming you're claiming benefits as it's reach new levels of lowlessness (sp) when people claiming benefits fraudulently are moaning about being done over money wise.

The only one who seems to be clear of any wrong doing in all of this is your DD, yet she's the one who may miss out.

mummymeister · 11/09/2024 16:08

Floralsofa · 11/09/2024 16:06

Did you have your brother keep it in order to still qualify for benefits?

Of course she did. thats the bit she has missed out in her OP and has now disappeared. Her poor brother knew it was fraud and that he could lose his career over it and wanted no part of it. But dont worry mug tax payers like me will just keep funding you love.

conniefromaccounts · 11/09/2024 16:09

You should've put DDs money into trust and not into someone else's bank account. All that has happened since is your own fault. Who did what when is irrelevant. Your DB had every right not to want the money in his account.

conniefromaccounts · 11/09/2024 16:12

Also, 'you didn't know how to open a trust' - have you not heard of Google? Or maybe call a solicitor, You sound dodgy as hell OP.

Spiderwmn · 11/09/2024 16:14

CAB citizens advice - try there for help

Wwyd2025 · 11/09/2024 16:16

Trumptonagain · 11/09/2024 16:06

Your DB/DIL both being lawyers should have known better...
Maybe they were worried of being found out about helping you hide the money.

You're probably not as pissed off as taxpayers are knowing that you've had access to this money while, possibly
fraudulently, claiming DLA for your DD when she had 100k in savings.

Hoping it's wrong in assuming you're claiming benefits as it's reach new levels of lowlessness (sp) when people claiming benefits fraudulently are moaning about being done over money wise.

The only one who seems to be clear of any wrong doing in all of this is your DD, yet she's the one who may miss out.

DLA is non means tested....

Hopelesslydevoted2Gu · 11/09/2024 16:17

This will be a lot easier to resolve if you can make amends with your brother, and ideally the other executor. If you continue the feud with him, you are reducing your daughter's likelihood of getting this money back. Let go of being angry with him - focus on doing your best to sort this out for your daughter.

It's a complicated scenario and it will be a lot easier to reach a good conclusion if the three executors are all in agreement about what happened and what your deceased parent intended when they made the gift.

And - OPEN A BANK ACCOUNT FOR YOUR DAUGHTER!! (If she's still a child, if she's an adult hopefully she has one already). Martin Lewis Martin saving expert website has recommended children's savings accounts. Just open one!!! Any one. Some need to be opened in branch or by post so get on with this now.

Hopelesslydevoted2Gu · 11/09/2024 16:19

"opening a trust" for a child can be as simple as opening a savings account in their name. This creates a bare trust.

There are more complicated types of trust,but a child savings account was all you needed.

Pleasealexa · 11/09/2024 16:20

Honestly you have screwed up here. Once your brother asked you to take it back you should have dealt with it. Them when in the other account but under control of a sick relative you should have acted. In all you have missed 3 opportunities to act and really there are no excuses.

In delaying the transfer I assume you have missed out on all the interest accrued?

As someone else posted, build bridges with your brother, accept it's your fault for not acting when asked and see if it can be sorted. Otherwise you will have to accept what happens. I would perhaps suggest your daughter would be very disappointed you haven't acted in her best interests.