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Legal matters

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Brother’s actions and inheritance

177 replies

Kushiyaki · 11/09/2024 13:16

I’m not sure what to do about this situation which has blown up since my last surviving parent passed away recently.
Seven years ago, my DD ( asd) inherited some money ( about £100k). For various reasons, I entrusted DB to keep it for her in his account until DD became an adult as my own finances were shaky. I have texts showing that he agreed and that it was DD’s money. Our relationship fell apart during early Covid era and he demanded that I take the money back but I said I couldn’t right now but I would do soon. I also found out that DB was pissed off that he had not been left anything by that person at the time. DB and his DW are both magic circle trained lawyers with huge savings ( worth millions together). I am a lone parent living on DDs DLA basically ( my ex was abusive and fully absent ) and full time carer to DD.
Over the past three years DB and I would text about majorly important things. The lines of communication were open even if the socialising was over.
Fast forward to this year, DB was pissed off about me declining a family invite ( it might have been an olive branch invite but I never wanted to start socialising with them again). Without telling me, DB transferred my DD!s money into our widowed parent’s account electronically, giving neither of us a say. Parent ( terminally ill, elderly) said it was because DB was pissed off about declined invitation and told me to take the money back before they died.
Now I did not feel that DB had the right to do that without my consent so I said that as far as I was concerned, my money was still in their account along with the other hundreds of thousands they have in savings. DDs money was not distinguishable from the rest of their savings but it was sent to an account belonging to parent with nothing else in it. My DDs gift would also have been tax free by this stage.
Now, surviving parent has died and DB is being obnoxious about it, saying it is irrelevant and nothing to do with them and that they will talk to the one other beneficiary about the possibility of them agreeing to me getting it back ( DB and I are co executors).
My questions are:
Can DB actually argue that he had a right to do this to DD’s money without my consent? I wouldn’t have agreed to it and I would have taken it back but he never asked?
can I pursue DB to give the money back from his account. I think it was a really dumb and or mean thing for a lawyer to do
As a co executor, do I really need the permission of the third beneficiary who is not an executor for DD to have ‘her’ money back? I gave emails from parent about the money and wanting to transfer it and it states that the money is DD’s and the amount.
DB is putting pressure on me to resign as co executor. They have all the certificates, bank statements etc and won’t show me anything. There was a weekend of ugly emails where they mocked my DDs disability, my parenting, my lack of finances, not taking responsibility etc and not for the first time. I felt they were gaslighting me because I am actually right.
As executor, could I approach the bank with what I have and ask to be given control over the money? I know DB has applied for probate but I understand that you can sometimes sort things out before it is granted?
I’m really worried for DD’s future as that money was hers, it was tax free and it may be vital to her survival in the future. I worry that DB and SIL Will use it for paying death duties and carry on using their vast savings for their bunch of kids ( all privately educated, luxury holidays, recently dropped £10k on a Taylor Swift weekend, you get the idea).

OP posts:
IItisymoi · 11/09/2024 14:36

While you obviously need solicitors advice I can tell you from personal experience that Solicitors CANNOT be TRUSTED.
I am an executor to my parentls wills and both have now died BUT the Solicitors totally messed up the inheritance by LYING, mental abuse (of me) and withholding vital financial information from me for 18 months . The stress of dealing with it (I was representing 7 beneficiaries and trying to do the correct thing according to the will(s) caused hypertension and then a stroke being hospitalised for 4 days. The solicitors (and ultimately the legal Olbudsman) refused to LISTEN to my very careful instructions and I then became suicidal with the stress. I ultimately received a letter from the Legal Ombudsman saying that they would not be bothered to actually investigate my case and that I should go ahead and kill myself (my LIFE was worth 100 Quid compensation for 2 years abuse). this may bot help the OP's case but be VERY careful about dealing with solicitors. Ultimately I received 2 large boxes of documents that PROVED that the solicitors had LIED and that they were simply not up to the job: 4 years on I am taking antidepressants as well as other medication for the resultant effects of my stroke.

IItisymoi · 11/09/2024 14:38

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GladBlueSlug · 11/09/2024 14:40

Were you on benefits op?

Thunderpants88 · 11/09/2024 14:41

your DB didn’t screw you over.

take a bit of ownership women

he returned all the money that you tried to hide, no doubt for claiming max benefits.

you should be damn grateful he didn’t keep it

KitsyWitsy · 11/09/2024 14:41

of course they're on benefits. What a mess.

Ginmonkeyagain · 11/09/2024 14:43

This is insane. So a elderly relative, whilst still alive, gifted your daughter (then a child) £100k and you gave it to your brother for 7 years to "look after"?

Why did you not just go to a bank, ask about savings bonds for children, open one in your daughter's name and get the relative to pay the money directly in to that?

It's very easy. My brother opened savings accounts for my neice and nephew when they were born and I pay any cash gifts directly in to them (nothing like £100k - more like the odd £50 at birthdays 😄)

PrincessScarlett · 11/09/2024 14:43

Wow! Imagine how furious you would be if your mother lost £100k of your money.

OP, I really don't understand why it wasn't put in trust for your daughter at the time. You ex couldn't have gotten the money as it belonged to your daughter.

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 11/09/2024 14:44

Everyone has behaved badly here. You for not taking steps to take the money back. But I'm not sure your brother can keep your daughters money in trust for her, and then just decide to send it to someone else rather than return it to you or her. Even if you have behaved badly, its not fair if your and your brothers actions together havd resulted in your daughter losing £100k. I think it is worth seeing a solicitor

Ophy83 · 11/09/2024 14:46

You need legal advice.

I think the position is probably that he was holding the money on trust for her. He then said he didn't want to be a trustee. Did your parent agree to the transfer and to hold it for your daughter? If so i think the trust property would be followed to their estate. But if they didnt agree to this then to essentially dissipate the trust by givjng the money to someone else would be a breach of duty and if it came out of an account that was a mixture of his money and trust money equity would presume that he would spend/gift his own money first.

But this isn't my area and you really do need the advice of a specialist.

Mrsttcno1 · 11/09/2024 14:47

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 11/09/2024 14:44

Everyone has behaved badly here. You for not taking steps to take the money back. But I'm not sure your brother can keep your daughters money in trust for her, and then just decide to send it to someone else rather than return it to you or her. Even if you have behaved badly, its not fair if your and your brothers actions together havd resulted in your daughter losing £100k. I think it is worth seeing a solicitor

It wasn’t officially in trust, OP doesn’t even know what that is or how to do it, so actually all that happened is OP sent him some money, he asked her to take it back, she refused, he then moved it and told her exactly where it was with specific instructions to retrieve it, OP didn’t bother to do that. OP has no leg to stand on legally whatsoever. It’s not the brother’s actions that caused this, it’s OP’s and any solicitor worth their wage will be able to tell her that immediately.

Richiewoo · 11/09/2024 14:47

I smell bullshit. Why has it taken 7 years to sort it

Araminta1003 · 11/09/2024 14:50

You asked lawyers to be complicit in potential tax and benefit fraud and you are surprised they are pissed off? This kind of thing could cost them their career? You should have organised yourself and put the money in a proper trust on behalf of your disabled child.

Ginmonkeyagain · 11/09/2024 14:52

I am assuming the £100k now forms part of the grandparent's estate? Who are the beneficiaries?

Could you look in to a deed of variation so the £100k is transferred to your DD?

GladBlueSlug · 11/09/2024 14:52

Ginmonkeyagain · 11/09/2024 14:43

This is insane. So a elderly relative, whilst still alive, gifted your daughter (then a child) £100k and you gave it to your brother for 7 years to "look after"?

Why did you not just go to a bank, ask about savings bonds for children, open one in your daughter's name and get the relative to pay the money directly in to that?

It's very easy. My brother opened savings accounts for my neice and nephew when they were born and I pay any cash gifts directly in to them (nothing like £100k - more like the odd £50 at birthdays 😄)

Would it mean missing out on benefits?

SwiftiesVSLestat · 11/09/2024 14:53

If you were going through a divorce why would your daughter’s money be included? Or raided?

This gift to your daughter for a relative. Any paperwork from the relative to say it was for your daughter? Why wasn’t it put in a bank account in her name? Rather than your brother holding on to it? Not ideal but why would it sit in anyone else’s bank account if it was your daughters?

Sounds like nothing officially made it your daughters. Went from the relative to your brother. So apart from some emails (which I think are between you and your brother) there’s nothing to prove it was your daughters money.

Sounds more like money was to be gifted and you decided you didn’t want it due to the divorce and (maybe) benefits being impacted by it and you have, really tried to hide any connection to the money.

He told you to take it back. At which point you could have had it put in your daughter’s name. He did not want that money I. His account anymore. Did you really expect him to just keep it there because it suited you?

How old is your daughter?

DancingPhantomsOnTheTerrace · 11/09/2024 14:54

Now I did not feel that DB had the right to do that without my consent so I said that as far as I was concerned, my money was still in their account along with the other hundreds of thousands they have in savings. DDs money was not distinguishable from the rest of their savings but it was sent to an account belonging to parent with nothing else in it.

But surely that money wasn't yours to give to your brother either? It was your DD's money, and you have it to your brother, so it wasn't under her name at all?

ARichtGoodDram · 11/09/2024 14:55

DD was a child, now a young adult. It was a lifetime transfer by an elderly relative , I should not have said “inherited” as confusing.

Two totally different things.

Someone gifted your DD money and you effectively gifted it to your brother.

There is going to be no automatic legal recourse to getting it back.

ARichtGoodDram · 11/09/2024 14:56

Did it ever hit your DD's bank account or did it go directly to your brother?

Rubydoobydoobydoo · 11/09/2024 14:59

I started out feeling sorry for you, but the years of refusal to cooperate with your DB or to take responsibility for this massive gift to your daughter, combined with your relentless negativity about him, has made me see the situation in a new light.

You turned down opportunity after opportunity to find a way of dealing positively with the money. Presumably because it might have affected your daughter's benefits, which constitute your income. Not a good look, OP. You ignored the fact that holding all that money on behalf of your DD might raise issues for your DB. You objected to his requests that you take the money — and now you're whinging that it might have lost its tax-free status? You sound like a nightmare to do anything with and I certainly wouldn't want to be co-executor with you. I've been a co-executor and you have to work together, get stuff done efficiently and take decisions. You seem to be incapable of any of that.

LibertyStars · 11/09/2024 15:00

A lot of people on this thread talking absolute bobbins.

Gazelda · 11/09/2024 15:00

Your DB helped when you asked him to.

You fell out then he offered an olive branch which you declined.

He wanted to return the £ to your DD and you refused to enable that.

He's acted legally and morally.

If I were you, I'd be trying to build bridges with him rather than starting a war. He doesn't deserve any of this. Nor does your DD. Stop blaming him and making him out to be a villain.

Stopbeingawalkoverandwalk · 11/09/2024 15:00

Look, forget about the background noise and all the falling out rubbish. Remind your brother he is an officer of the court, has a duty of honesty in his dealings, and that fraudulent actions get solicitors struck off - yes, even ones in their private lives. He knows full well that the £100k does not belong in your parent's estate. It was given to him by you for safekeeping, not as a gift. He was in no position to gift it to your parents such that it formed part of their estate. He's now playing another game with you where you may end up losing some of it. You have the full paper trail. Tell him to stop this game now or you will report him to the Solicitor's Regulation Authority.

Newbutoldfather · 11/09/2024 15:02

You definitely need a solicitor but I think how it was gifted matters.

Was the gift to your daughter or just transferred to your account ‘to use for your daughter’ (which I suspect)? In that case it was legally your money. This would also explain hiding it, both in terms of a divorce settlement, and also that it would have been reasonable for both of you to have drawn on it for the benefit of your daughter when she was still a child, maybe something you didn’t want your ex husband to do?

What does sound unfair to you though, is not selling your parents’ house. This is not your brother’s decision to make. The estate should be realised and distributed to the inheritees.

You need to get a really good probate solicitor involved, and sooner rather than later.

NoShirtNoShoesNoSheldon · 11/09/2024 15:05

Kushiyaki · 11/09/2024 13:37

I am prepared to be told that I am wrong but I was going through a messy divorce and I was worried about DD’s money being raided by the other parent. I know that after it concluded that I could have taken it back but DB never offered so I assumed he did not mind looking after it any longer.

I thought he told you to take it back.

Our relationship fell apart during early Covid era and he demanded that I take the money back but I said I couldn’t right now but I would do soon

Your DP also told you to deal with the money.

and told me to take the money back before they died.
You were too pig headed to do so it seems.
Now I did not feel that DB had the right to do that without my consent so I said that as far as I was concerned, my money was still in their account
You chose to leave the money in DPs account!

Ohhawtdang · 11/09/2024 15:09

Gutted for your DD. Your poor bro too.

You’ve made this so unnecessarily difficult and frankly been feckless with your child’s money. You should have taken care of it properly.