Speeding notice next steps

[Speednotspeed]

I’ll try to be brief but full factual.

Dh and ds work for the same company. They’ve both had an NIP regarding a speeding offence. They both have separate letters to complete to say who was driving. They drive between 500 and 1000+ miles per week. Neither knows who drove on this day, both have checked their phones to see if they were texting etc (meaning they weren’t the driver) - nothing they can find to work out who was driving.

Just wondering the legalities and next steps. Dh will ring the police in the next couple of days for further information.

Offence date 24.4.24
Dh NIP dated 21.6.24, arrived 22.6.24
Ds NIP dated 21.6.24, arrived today, 25.6.24
Both received a reminder letter yesterday, 24.6.24 saying they had to complete and return the NIP.
NIP says the speed they were doing (59) and on what road, but not what the limit is on that road, or by how much they were speeding. I’ve googled and the road is a 70 but currently has yellow average speed check cameras, I’m assuming it’s a 50. We’re assuming we’ve googled the correct road.

Dh has asked work to confirm what date is on the initial letter, as if it’s after 14 days from the offence I understand it’s not enforceable?

So, not trying to get out of the speeding charge, just want to know legalities and ensure dh/ds are dealt with correctly.

Is it best/reasonable for dh to ring the police and ask for a copy of the original letter that would have gone to the company so he can check the date, ask what the limit is on the road of the offence, tell them as it’s 2 months previous he doesn’t not know who was driving and can only confirm he was in the vehicle? I’m hoping they have a photo as that will clear it all up. Should he ask this?

Any other help and advice much appreciated.

You contact the force that issued the notice. You explain that you dont know who was driving, and that the company has no system for recording the driver, just the occupants. It is possible then that the company (as the registered keeper) would be prosecuted for failing to provide details of the driver, unless they can show a good reason why they didn't have a system for recording that information.
Assuming no admin errors leading to cancellation.

Out of interest, if they had sent a notice to 1 driver, who said it wasn’t them it was driver 2 .. would the notice to driver 2 be the same notice number or would it be a different one?

Same notice number because it’s the same offence. The ref number will be the same all the way through.

Ah ok .. So could they not have just put 1 name in, printed it, put the next name in printed it, then posted both?

No. The system we had wouldn’t allow that. Maybe the force that has issued your fines has that facility? Sounds odd to issue multiple nominations with the same date tho 🤔

Failing to provide information relating to identity of driver is a more serious offence than speeding and carries 6 points. A court is unlikely to accept not knowing who was driving as a valid reason for failing to identify the driver.

@Redburnett please rtft and you will understand our efforts in doing so, we are not taking this lightly, but are also exhausting all avenues of lawfulness at the same time.

@Redburnett Let’s see if it’s an admin error first. Not nominating would be failing to comply and would go to court x

If the vans are leased, the registered keeper would usually be the lease company rather than your husband's employer. If that is the case, the 14-day limit only applied to sending the first NIP to the lease company. They would respond identifying your husband's employer, so the one dated 31st May would have been the second NIP and the time limit would not apply.

I don't think the employer, assuming they are the keeper, nominated either as the driver.

Rather they said that after diligent inquiry we do not know who it was but si as to evidence that their inquiry was full and thorough they've said it was one of these two.

Whether, with that information the Police can legally NIP both I don't know.

If the OP and her DH/DS want to follow that up then I think, unless the Police 'fess up that they've acted outwith the rules, they're going to need proper legal advice; the sort you have to pay for...

The vans are owned by the company so the original NIP went to them - they’re saying it was dated 31/5 which just can’t be right surely?! The company gave dh and ds names as the 2 possible drivers of the van on that day.
Dh is going to ring the police when he is able and I will update here. Hopefully if they have made a procedural mistake, they will say so and not enforce the NIP.

@Cattery is it usual to not circle the road limit on the NIP where appropriate?

What @prh47bridge is correct. The van could be leased by the company. No, they don’t circle the speed but the speed limit and the vehicle’s speed will be on the NIP. All I can say is we didn’t enter two possible nominations. One nomination (of maybe many possible drivers) is entered. It’s is then up to that nominee to send in their own nomination and so forth

Ok. The NIP does not show the limit on the road, it just names the road. It does say what speed the driver was doing - 59. It’s a 60 road, which is why I think it’s because it’s a van so the camera has picked that up and (unknowingly to us but no excuse) the vans (N1) limit is 50. That’s what we assume as the NIP doesn’t tell us. I kind of just feel there’s been a few errors here and there really shouldn’t be.
edit to say, so the offence date was 24/4. First NIP dated 31/5 sent to employer who is registered keeper. Second NIP’s dates 21/6 sent to drivers.

It all sounds highly irregular. Do ring them when you get the chance

I don’t suppose dh and ds could have work mates who have done this as a joke? Faked a NIP? The first NIP to the registered keeper was way out of date

No not fakes. They came in good envelopes with no physical stamp, assume franked or pre paid can’t remember. I don’t think work have been on top of this very well tbh - there’s quite a few employees there, they mostly all travel across the country so have racked up a few fines along the way. I’m wondering if work have remembered the date wrong, as they first said they binned the letter, but now they know the date 🤷🏻‍♀️ Will try to contact police tomorrow, am hoping they’ll provide a copy of the first NIP, or at least tell us the date. It would be great if I could ring but they’ll obviously not speak to me, so I have to wait for dh to get time.

They MIGHT speak to you. Give them the reference number. They will call up the offence on the system and read out to you each transaction that was entered and when.

Oh I’ll give it a go .. I figured they wouldn’t due to GDPR. Also just found 1 of the envelopes .. it has a POBox address on the back with the county it was issued in, and the front is Account Postage paid, so definitely genuine.

Ah ok. Yeh ring. They can only say they can’t discuss with you 🤷‍♀️

I think I’ve got it. Nip went to rk who is the company. They sat on it so long that they were then issued with a reminder. They filled in the reminder and the original nip one with DS name and one with dh name. They were received by the police and input say a day apart therefore generating two notices one to dh and one to DS

No idea … but both notices have the same date on them. Both reminder letters have the same date and arrived at the same time. But the way I see it now, we have 2 NIP’s which were maybe incorrectly issued. We have original NIP that was issued way past its time (assuming it wasn’t a reminder). The NIP’s don’t show the road speed.

Anyway, I’ll try to ring tomorrow, the line doesn’t open til 11, and will update.

Are you saying that your DH/DS didn't know the limit for the van they were driving on the road they were driving on?

I bet the majority of drivers out there don’t realise a small van is restricted to a lower limit on roads. A small 1.6 ford connect, almost same size as a Ford Galaxy is subject to lower limits. Not many people realise that, given that anywhere we’ve driven, rarely do you see a van doing less than the limit where road conditions and traffic allow.

I don't really know what to say to that, other than if you are regularly driving a vehicle, it is absolutely your responsibility to know the law regarding it. I also think the employer should be making staff aware.

Which is exactly what dh has told them. We knew about larger transits but not smaller ones. Of all the people we’ve spoken to when we found out about the larger vans (friends, family, colleagues) only 1 person knew! 1 person! So I can pretty much say, the majority of the population will not realise this. If you’re driving along a single carriageway national limit, are you ever stuck behind a van doing 50? Nope.