Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Coercive control. Police or lawyers?

121 replies

Zinus · 15/05/2023 15:30

My ex is a study of coercive control and given the change in the law, post separation behaviour is now also a crime under SCA 2015

i have some evidence, and his behaviour continues - do I go to the police directly or do I instruct a solicitor specialising in this?

I just want him to stop.

OP posts:
Zinus · 18/05/2023 11:20

Fruitful82 · 18/05/2023 11:17

So it boils down to..: you want a break?

I do very very much want a break occasionally. He has them for 2 nights a month, from Saturday lunch to Sunday tea. Ish. They love him, they look forward to going and they seem to have a great time.

OP posts:
Fruitful82 · 18/05/2023 11:20

Zinus · 18/05/2023 11:18

That he is responsible for transporting them, and having them at fixed times, and doesn’t mess about with this just to spite me.

In fact all of this would be sorted if he wasn’t so solidly spiteful.

So you’d report him

on the hope that it Increases the time he spends with your children

as an aside…. Not a chance he will be forced to spend time with his children.

Fruitful82 · 18/05/2023 11:21

Do you see how daft that is

you want to involve the police so that he keeps to fixed contact ie more than currently

Fruitful82 · 18/05/2023 11:21

Zinus · 18/05/2023 11:20

I do very very much want a break occasionally. He has them for 2 nights a month, from Saturday lunch to Sunday tea. Ish. They love him, they look forward to going and they seem to have a great time.

So you want to report him to the police to increase that time 😐

Zinus · 18/05/2023 11:22

Of course he won’t increase the time he spends with them!!!!!!

It’s the deliberate manipulation of the small locus of control he has over me! Financial, and then threatening to leave the kids unattended - and recently doing exactly that!

OP posts:
Zinus · 18/05/2023 11:23

Fruitful82 · 18/05/2023 11:21

So you want to report him to the police to increase that time 😐

Are you being deliberately obtuse? I think you are. That isn’t what I’ve said at all. He agrees to do things, I make arrangements around that, and then he refuses or changes things at the last minute. It’s THAT.

OP posts:
thisisasurvivor · 18/05/2023 11:24

Ignore the posters who think they known it all

Zinus · 18/05/2023 11:24

Fruitful82 · 18/05/2023 11:21

Do you see how daft that is

you want to involve the police so that he keeps to fixed contact ie more than currently

Do you see how you are missing the point spectacularly? Clearly not.

OP posts:
Fruitful82 · 18/05/2023 11:24

Zinus · 18/05/2023 11:22

Of course he won’t increase the time he spends with them!!!!!!

It’s the deliberate manipulation of the small locus of control he has over me! Financial, and then threatening to leave the kids unattended - and recently doing exactly that!

So report him

and then what?

him getting a criminal conviction in order to increase time with your children is fucked up

Zinus · 18/05/2023 11:25

Fruitful82 · 18/05/2023 11:24

So report him

and then what?

him getting a criminal conviction in order to increase time with your children is fucked up

It isn’t to get him to increase the time with the children. It is to stop him from manipulating me through them.

OP posts:
Fruitful82 · 18/05/2023 11:25

He’s a shit dad op

and a crappy man

reporting him to the police is not going to change that and mean you get more you time

Zinus · 18/05/2023 11:27

Fruitful82 · 18/05/2023 11:25

He’s a shit dad op

and a crappy man

reporting him to the police is not going to change that and mean you get more you time

ill say this once more; this isn’t about getting him to increase the time he has them.

It is to stop him manipulating and controlling ME.

OP posts:
BetterFuture1985 · 18/05/2023 11:43

@Zinus There's clearly more to this man than you're wanting to reveal here, which is perfectly understandable by the way. You've hinted at some really horrible behaviour. Yet you keep fixating on the behaviour that isn't going to get him into trouble, the stuff we put in the "shit parent" bucket rather than the "criminal" bucket.

I'm rather concerned for your welfare and your ability to navigate this on your own. Have you considered contacting a charity like Women's Aid or Refuge for some counselling? I think they might be able to help you to focus and identify the behaviour that really needs a hard stop from law enforcement.

Zinus · 18/05/2023 11:47

BetterFuture1985 · 18/05/2023 11:43

@Zinus There's clearly more to this man than you're wanting to reveal here, which is perfectly understandable by the way. You've hinted at some really horrible behaviour. Yet you keep fixating on the behaviour that isn't going to get him into trouble, the stuff we put in the "shit parent" bucket rather than the "criminal" bucket.

I'm rather concerned for your welfare and your ability to navigate this on your own. Have you considered contacting a charity like Women's Aid or Refuge for some counselling? I think they might be able to help you to focus and identify the behaviour that really needs a hard stop from law enforcement.

Thankyou - I’ve focussed on the behaviour that gets under my skin the most. And yes there is a horrible list of spiteful coercive things he’s done, and I am daily relieved that we are no longer together.

I’ve been in touch with women’s aid, and they signposted me to RightsOfWomen. Beyond that, I just get on with things.

OP posts:
Fruitful82 · 18/05/2023 11:49

Zinus · 18/05/2023 11:27

ill say this once more; this isn’t about getting him to increase the time he has them.

It is to stop him manipulating and controlling ME.

But why mention wanting time to yourself hence your desire to secure fixed times.

there is nothing in law that will stop him manipulating you. Only you can stop yourself being manipulated.

Fruitful82 · 18/05/2023 11:49

And if there is a lot more to this awful man than you’re revealing here…. I’d be happy that I’d only two nights a month and leave it at that

vivainsomnia · 18/05/2023 11:53

Sadly OP, this won't stop until you realise that someone can only control another person if that person lets it happen. And that's exactly what you are doing.

You want to control him yourself by wanting him to be a reliable person. He doesn't have to be. It's up to him. It's inconvenient to you but it is making you upset and angry only because you rely on him and make yourself dependent on him.

This will only stop when you stop any reliance you have on him. Stop facilitating contact. Make your children available and that's that. If he doesn't rise up it's sad for your children but it's his doing.

You need a break? Find a way to get it without relying on him. Try to save to arrange a childminder for a day. More importantly, try to find happiness and organising your life around them so that you are a great little bubble and don't need him. Arrange your finances so you don't ever need his money.

Of course, all this will be hard, unfair and the rest but you'll be free of that anger that is eating you inside. Stopping being dependent on someone is the most rewarding feeling. The energy you use being angry, frustrated, looking at any way to get back to him will be energy you'll have to enjoy time with your kids.

You are in full control: to continue to be dependent on him or to draw a line and live your life free of his control.

BetterFuture1985 · 18/05/2023 11:54

Zinus · 18/05/2023 11:47

Thankyou - I’ve focussed on the behaviour that gets under my skin the most. And yes there is a horrible list of spiteful coercive things he’s done, and I am daily relieved that we are no longer together.

I’ve been in touch with women’s aid, and they signposted me to RightsOfWomen. Beyond that, I just get on with things.

Do you feel like that was enough though, because it sounds to me like you're still having to deal with this on your own?

Fruitful82 · 18/05/2023 11:55

vivainsomnia · 18/05/2023 11:53

Sadly OP, this won't stop until you realise that someone can only control another person if that person lets it happen. And that's exactly what you are doing.

You want to control him yourself by wanting him to be a reliable person. He doesn't have to be. It's up to him. It's inconvenient to you but it is making you upset and angry only because you rely on him and make yourself dependent on him.

This will only stop when you stop any reliance you have on him. Stop facilitating contact. Make your children available and that's that. If he doesn't rise up it's sad for your children but it's his doing.

You need a break? Find a way to get it without relying on him. Try to save to arrange a childminder for a day. More importantly, try to find happiness and organising your life around them so that you are a great little bubble and don't need him. Arrange your finances so you don't ever need his money.

Of course, all this will be hard, unfair and the rest but you'll be free of that anger that is eating you inside. Stopping being dependent on someone is the most rewarding feeling. The energy you use being angry, frustrated, looking at any way to get back to him will be energy you'll have to enjoy time with your kids.

You are in full control: to continue to be dependent on him or to draw a line and live your life free of his control.

Very sensible post

BodegaSushi · 18/05/2023 16:47

Fruitful82 · 18/05/2023 10:26

You seem very keen for him to have the children and yet you think he’s clearly a very bad person. Odd

Agreed. Also conflicting posts about not needing help with the children can cope herself that's not what it's about, and, but then I won't get a break.

BetterFuture1985 · 18/05/2023 17:37

Well, there wouldn't be any money or break if he got 6 months for coercive control in the magistrate's court. If that was what this was about and the objective was a more reliable ex, it would be foolish to report him to the police and it wouldn't go any further because the police and the CPS would need to identify "continuous" or "repeated" abuse that the offender "knew or ought to know" causing a "serious effect" on the victim.

However, if you read between the lines, this is clearly not the full picture here. These are only the snippets of a life lived by someone whose ex is vile and told by someone who is not yet ready to articulate the full scale of the abuse. On the face of it, the OP complains about financial promises and childcare but underneath the surface there is name calling, attempted alienation and a history of having to get his permission just to leave a room. So we really ought to bear in mind that what this man is doing now might be because it is all he can do, when he is capable of doing more and worse.

And just to be clear, I'm often very sceptical of people who claim they are abused when it happens on a website. Besides trolls, I worry for example that behind the screen there is someone who far from being abused is actually the abuser, seeking ways to use the institutions (police, CAFCASS, law courts) to further torment their victim or someone who just wants to cry abuse to get a better financial settlement. However, this woman clearly just wants a nasty piece of work to stop tormenting her and has no other motivation. If people have nothing helpful to say I suggest they stop.

Shadowworry · 18/05/2023 19:48

Zinus · 18/05/2023 11:02

He’s their dad! They love him.

He is vile to me and yet to the rest of the world he’s a marvellous devoted prince.

Hang on - he is a role model and you can’t have it both ways

he can’t hold you by a rope if you cut the rope

get him to pick them up and drop them back to nursery

you have a choice here

Zinus · 18/05/2023 19:51

@BetterFuture1985 im in the car park of Tesco, having a cry at your post. You are spot on. What he is doing to me is all that he can do at the moment. His cruelty and vitriol in the past have been breathtaking. Some of the evidence I have collated regarding his controlling will hopefully include statements from my child’s teacher, who witnessed him texting and phoning me constantly because I wasn’t where I said I was going to be, and accusing me of leaving the phone at school so I could go off and shag someone else, and that was why I wasn’t picking up. It was actually parents evening and he had forgotten, and that was why I was there. I explained that to my son’s teacher, a sensible woman a lot older than me, and the colour drained from her face. From then on she was an ally.

It was the small cuts that hurt - he threw out all of a collection of things he knew were precious to me; he pretended that he thought they were rubbish, but he knew they weren’t. He laughed to the children one morning “mummy will look silly at school today” as I left the house. I didn’t know what he meant, but when we got there I realised the front pockets of my coat had been ripped right down, the linings all hanging out, perfectly symmetrically.

He would open my car door at night so the interior light was on and this would deaden the battery - that was usually if I was trying to go somewhere. I caught him doing that, red handed. He just looked at me and smiled, he liked that I knew. He would open my post and then hide it - I found cards and letters he had taken, all hidden. If I was reading a book he’d let me get into it and then it would disappear. Again I’d find them hidden. He bought me earrings for my birthday, they were for pierced ears, my ears are not pierced, and he wouldn’t take them back. Then he wrapped them up again and gave them to me for Christmas.

He would sometimes pretend that he was “making an effort” and this used to scare me the most. There was always a twist somewhere. One time he cooked for us, he is an excellent cook when he wants to be, but mine had soap in. He swore it didn’t, but it did. Or he would make some sexual advances and yet there would always be a humiliation in there, “I was up for it tonight but you smell wrong” and then he would get off on my bursting into tears. He really liked that.

He would undermine me at every turn - feeding sweets to the kids at tea time, or if I was putting their tea out he would say things like “that doesn’t look right, I wouldn’t eat that.” And then they wouldn’t eat and I’d have to cook something else.

He never hit me though. And that’s why he congratulates himself I suspect. He controlled me totally without even raising a hand.

I realise there are posters on this thread who don’t believe this is abuse, or coercion - that it’s not that bad and why did I stay, and why didn’t I just shrug it off. I can’t answer that. If he had hit me it would have been over. Tiny paper slices are less easy to see.

OP posts:
BetterFuture1985 · 18/05/2023 23:17

@Zinus I'm sorry you had to write that. Hopefully others now realise this isn't something "putting a happy face" on will solve. First of all, people like the OP's ex typically pick on people who were vulnerable in the first place, who didn't start with the tools to be resilient to the abuse in the first place (apologies in advance if this does not apply to you OP). And on top of that, people like this will escalate their behaviour is what they are doing is not tormenting enough.

You could run through a CPS checklist and tick pretty much every box with that but unfortunately whilst there is a law now against coercive control it's like a lot these types of offences that happen mostly behind closed doors. Hard to prove; victims drowned out by the false allegations of others that make the police jaded and unduly sceptical; a manipulative and often clever offender who can run rings around people and of course on top of all that the victims often remain dependent on their tormenter. An abuser in prison can't pay child maintenance that might be essential for their victim to meet their needs and those of their children.

So of course it is also very hard to give good advice. The legal advice is keep a diary, get all the evidence you can and eventually get him in front of a magistrate. His offending would suggest a summary rather than indictable offence but the extent of it could see him behind bars for 3 months (6 month sentence). Perhaps a community order would be better, several hundred hours of picking through trash might do him some good. But I suspect the legal answer is less than ideal as you would have no respite and possibly lose some essential income for your family?

In which case the rather flimsy suggestion I can offer is the same as before, to try and seek out more support from domestic abuse charities and possibly counselling to help you strategise and cope with the mountain ahead. And apologies if you have said already, but do you have any family near by to provide some support and respite from childcare?

Wallywobbles · 19/05/2023 06:34

My ExH didn't pay anything towards the kids and had them 4 nights a month. He tried everything he could to get money from me.

I chose not to have child maintenance off him because I knew he'd use it as a huge stick to beat me with. I was fortunate I could afford it.

He eventually lost parental rights and this was a large factor in that. If you can afford to take money off the table do so. But do it legally via lawyers so there's a record. It's not right but it removes so much of his power.

Swipe left for the next trending thread