Coercive control. Police or lawyers?

[Zinus]

My ex is a study of coercive control and given the change in the law, post separation behaviour is now also a crime under SCA 2015

i have some evidence, and his behaviour continues - do I go to the police directly or do I instruct a solicitor specialising in this?

I just want him to stop.

I get where you're coming from. I'm a firm believer that arseholes get what's coming to them eventually. You can take the power to hurt you away from him. If you can find a way to do that you'll probably find it easier to move on from his twisted behaviour than if you try to get him charged. Concentrate on yourself and your children. Don't have any ongoing dialogue with him about anything other than simple arrangements concerning the children. If he says he can't collect them and you'll to drive them, say you can't and when he kicks off tell him he'll need to find a way or he won't be able to see them.

Social services is to block/limit contact with him/DCs. That's the route by which he continues to control you. Take the contact away and away goes the control.

Look I KNOW it's shit and frustrating and I completely see how difficult and damaging and difficult it is: but no-one is going to come in and make him stop doing it. The only way it stops is by you not allowing any avenues for it to happen, including financially. I know that's shit. But police, solicitor, all these things just tell him he's getting to you. All you can do is shut it down. Sorry.

Being angry at him is understandable but it's a complete waste of energy for you and EXACTLY what he wants to achieve.

What will wind him up the most is you not needing him any more.

Don't arrange anything with him. Don't ask him for anything. Go through CMS for child maintenance, communicate by brief 'greyrock' text messages only.

Make him irrelevant to you and you win.

What changed in April 23?

How old are the children?

Solicitor. Apply for a child arrangements order that reduces his time with the kids. Block and disengage.

If he leaves the kids unsupervised then call the police/social services if they’re under about 10/11. It could be criminal neglect. Then don’t send them for contact again because of what he did. Record everything. Get Cctv.

How old are the kids Op?

and when you say he’s sabotaging your life what sort of things do you mean?

I can't quote but what Hatgirl says.

The absolute best way to get back at him is to stop caring. Stop giving him the other side of the script that he's writing. Ignore him. Don't expect money, time or commitment. Make a life for your kids that he can be part of if he does the running / fits in around you but nothing else.

Disengage completely.

Coercive control used to apply to existing relationships only but also includes post-relationship offences now.

That said, I don't think it would be very easy to secure a conviction at all. The CPS guidelines fluff it up a bit to make it look possible but underneath it all you need to prove actions have been repeated and continuous (so an isolated example won't do); that it has had a serious effect (the CPS fluff it up by saying victims can hide it, but there will still need to be evidence of serious effect) and that there is no defence beyond reasonable doubt that it was in the victim's best interest. That's an extremely high bar.

@Zinus I'm obviously not aware of the whole story and it would be inappropriate to ask you to relay it here. However, on the basis of what you have relayed, I'm afraid I just can't see how a prosecution would be successful I'm afraid. For example, promising to pay for something and then not doing so because he doesn't have the money. It's not nice behaviour but I think you would have an uphill battle trying to get a criminal prosecution on it. His bringing the children back to you also; as the resident parent he is technically forgoing his limited contact with them but linking it to control would be very hard for a prosecutor to do. Being a shit father who makes promises he can't keep makes him a bad person but I'm not sure it makes him a criminal I'm afraid.

This law exists to deal with men and women who - through sustained abuse - have a serious adverse affect on someone in a closer personal relationship (or former close personal relationship). These are people with an active strategy to torment their victims on an ongoing basis. Your ex - based solely on what you have said here - is unreliable and leaves you out of pocket and stressed out with the children but that seems to be more an issue of neglect rather than criminal coercive control. Of course, there might be other examples you don't want to share here, but based on the information here and here alone I would say the advice to shut him out and developing strategies so that he cannot get to you is the best.

Thanks for your post - and I do see where you’re coming from. There was a long long history of financial abuse and overall control whilst we were married, and he’s done what he can to continue that.

The examples I’ve used are solely since April this year as that’s when the law changed. There’s plenty which predates this including all the evidence which was submitted when I first reported his behaviour back in early 2020 and then when he was arrested (but not charged) later that year.

I realise that a conviction is unlikely. I’d be happy if he just had his collar felt so he knew I’m not taking things lying down.

And he 100% can afford to pay. I am very sure of that and again the sort of moves he pulls is refusing to pay for things already agreed, but then making a big scene about spending thousands on tech toys for the kids. “So long as your mother doesn’t get it” etc.

And I hear the calls for grey rock too. I could support the children financially without him. But why should he be allowed to get away with it? He’s doing this to take the piss out of me, literally no other reason. Not negligence - he knows I’ll drop everything to get back to them - and that’s what he’s using against me.

How does he get into your house to leave them unattended? I'd start by changing the locks if he has a key. How old are the kids? I'd be uncontactable when he has the kids.

There’s a key code door entry.

Nothing in the law will make him pay up or be a decent man or dad.

Stop contact. Change the lock.

Forget about any money.

To the building or to your flat?

And I hear the calls for grey rock too. I could support the children financially without him. But why should he be allowed to get away with it? He’s doing this to take the piss out of me, literally no other reason. Not negligence - he knows I’ll drop everything to get back to them - and that’s what he’s using against me.

A few incidents of hinting you might have something and then just staying put and being ready to greet the children back early with big hugs and happiness to see them earlier than expected might fix that predilection of his. If he thinks you are HAPPY he has brought them home sooner it sucks the fun out of it for him.

Ditto mentioning X big purchase but letting him know he doesn't need to worry, you've have enough and know he's hard up so not to worry about contributing, you can manage it fine without him

Disarm him with happiness.

I hear you, but I still don't think there's enough on the face of it (and again, I stress I don't know everything) to suggest this behaviour is criminal coercive control. I note the police chose not to charge too and I'm not sure that the change in the law would be enough to change their minds.

The specific example where you say he can afford to pay is problematic for me too. If this was a case of him not paying child maintenance that would be a different matter, but ad hoc agreements over and above this are awkward to place. I don't know if it would be enough on its own to amount to economic abuse. Remember, you need to prove serious effect to have a case and by serious affect I'm not talking about being broke or even tired to the point of tears, I'm talking about living in fear and altering your behaviour because of that fear.

I will reiterate I don't know all the facts and a solicitor who you can brief in full will be much better placed than a law student like me to advise but I'm just not sure this amounts to abuse; it sounds more like being a shit human being to me.

I know you’re trying to help and if my ex husband was a normal person then this would be appropriate advice but in this individual case it’s just not.

Thankyou, I appreciate your perspective and I’ll take it all into account.

I was trying to work out whether to go to a specialist solicitor first, or direct to the police. I made a few calls yesterday and on the face of it, and because I don’t need any orders or notices at this point, I contacted the police and explained exactly what had happened and referenced the previous interactions.

With reference to them not charging him on previous occasions, the first time the police said they’d bring him in for questioning if I wanted, but that they were concerned that that May embolden him and make things worse. We were still living together at the time.

And the second was when he was arrested - for a litany of things, none of which were charged because I just wanted him gone and my then solicitor who was doing the divorce, made it clear to his brief that she had the orders drafted and ready to go. So in fact his own solicitor told him to pipe down and stay away, which he did.

The police would still charge if they had the evidence. They're trained to ignore retraction if they can proceed anyway, including on the basis of any statement you made. If that litany of things is not letting you have a bank account, interfering in your employment, taking out debts in your name etc in a way that had a serious impact on you then there would be a case. Promising to pay for something and not doing so or returning the children early, no.

I would definitely go to a solicitor first and talk through each allegation and the evidence.

Well, the police have just been and as predicted they don’t think there’s enough for anything like a charge let alone a prosecution. But they’re putting in a referral to social care about his leaving them unattended and why he’s doing it.

I am very very tired. And am going to have a good cry.

Sorry OP, unfortunately I did think that would be the case I'm afraid. There are criminal offences for coercive control but the bars on both impact and evidence are quite high. Your ex sounds like a bit of a bully and a shit parent but not to the point that he's a criminal.

OP, @hatgirl 's advice to kill him withkindness might work with your ex, it worked with mine.

They HATE it when you (completely deniably) call their bluff!

It doesn’t, it won’t. That isn’t how he is wired. I’m glad it’s worked for some.

You know, what I can’t put over, without using really specific examples, is the level of hatred and contempt this man has for me. He never hit me. But he did everything else he could to demoralise and control and degrade and bully.

The posts about fighting with kindness - they’re inappropriate. Would you say that to a woman with a violent ex? Make nice? My ex wouldn’t let me leave the room without permission. He tracked and followed me and connived and attempted to poison my family and turn my children against me. I am still stunned at the level of his hatred for me.

We're not talking about being especially kind to him, just looking like you are.

Have you read any of Lundy Bancroft's books, eg Why Does He Do That?

Yes, several times.