Wife is divorcing me - What can I expect financially

[ustbxh]

Looking for some information as to what I can realistically expect out of a seemingly inevitable divorce.

My wife of 10 years is looking for divorce, there is no single event which has caused this and we're both equally to blame for the breakdown of the marriage, although she's the one pushing for the divorce.

She's been a SAHM for the last 6 years - we've got a 3 & 6 year old. She didn't have a "career" before giving up work - earning 15-20k/year full time.

I'm a "high earner" I guess. Child Maintenance payments are going to be around £1200/month. Not sure if it's pertinent but my job has always been driven by our family's financial needs, I am not career driven and she's always had the option to return to work and I find a more practical job (I work away a lot which makes her working difficult) but financially, it's never made sense for her to return to work and me work away less. This has always been a financial based decision and never due to "my career" thus I don't feel that she has "sacrificed" anything to be a SAHM, in fact, I think she's had it extremely fortunate that this was possible.

Her desire seems to be to stay in the family home which realistically costs around £2800-3000/month to run including children's expenses such as clubs / activities. Savings / Holidays / personal disposable income is on top of that.

We have about £130k equity.

She has ideas of staying in the house, and me funding the majority of the costs (£2400ish) through child maintenance and spousal maintenance and she'd cover the rest - through benefits and presumably a job.

At some undefined point in the future she'd sell the house and I guess the equity at the time would be split (50/50?)

Financially the above would work - I think - and I'd be able to afford a reasonable lifestyle myself, however I would not have any equity to buy a house so would be stuck renting which I am greatly against. We'd always planned to be mortgage free in our early 50's but that's looking very unlikely now, even less so if I rent.

She is against selling the house due to the impact having cash assets has on benefits for her and her inability to get a mortgage, thus she'd be stuck renting....

Should I suck it up and agree to something along these lines, or am I being taken for a ride?

I have no idea what the norm is. Everyone I've known who's been through divorce have both worked so I have no experience of what's realistic etc.

TIA.

1. The problem with her staying in the house is that you may not be able to get a mortgage on your own. Years down the line that will cause problems for her and you.

1. She’s likely going to have to start working when your youngest starts school so in about 2/3 years. You won’t be expected to pay spousal maintenance forever and only if you can afford to do so while maintaining a good standard of life.

You clearly need to see a solicitor but those are the key things I saw.

Thanks @rainbowlovesfroot - absolutely need to see a solicitor, the issue is it seems no one really knows what is realistic to expect!

I expect that the intention would be to sell the house once spousal maintenance stopped - I'd think paying it for the next 5 years would be an acceptable compromise - that would make my kids at least 12 & 9 (assuming we didn't get divorced this year).

At that point selling (or me buying her out of the house) would be the sensible thing and there'd be significantly more equity (in theory).

If this ended up in court, is this a realistic outcome? I have no idea.

Would selling the house and buying two smaller houses each now be an option? Then just child maintenance?

She may not even get spousal maintenance, as in the England this is not a guarantee. So she may have to go to work or onto benefits.

You need to see a solicitor and see what is actually you would be accepted and not what your wife's wants.

I don't know much about spousal maintenance, but a few points:

1. the fact that you having a career was af financial decision you both took is actually irrelevant. Because ultimately, it was agreed she wouldn't work and you would. Which will have impacted her long term earning potential, even if that was something she preferred to do.

1. Ultimately, the assets need to be split 50/50, including the house. But I'm not entirely sure that you're obligated to maintain the house while also paying maintenance etc. So, if you think i makes sense financially to keep the house, negotiating a deal whereby she stays for a while to increase the equity you'll both get seems reasonable. But you'd both have to agree to the terms.

1. Your house is unlikely to be your only asset. Do you own other property/cars/pension etc? Don't forget those. They'll need to be included in any negotiations and settlement.

You should speak with a lawyer.

@wildhairdontcare

For me, absolutely, but she'd not be able to get a mortgage to make up the gap between cash and purchase price - although could afford the repayments, I don't believe mortgage companies tend to count child maintenance?

@Clutterbugsmum

I have been in contact with a solicitor informally, but as he says, until you start negotiating you don't know where you stand. I have no issue with giving her (some) spousal maintenance, it's only right, and ultimately would only negatively impact my children if I didn't.

@BlingLoving

1. totally agree, I just wanted to make that clear, but appreciate it really doesn't have an impact.

1. I'd be more than willing to split 60/40 or 70/30 if need be. I am absolutely not trying to screw her over (but also trying to protect myself from being too soft).

1. We have maybe 10-20k cash and a car, but nothing else of significance. Pension wise I have been paying into a pension for about 15 years so that would be worthy of taking note of.

Thanks!

You won't get 50/50. The starting position where one parent doesn't work is 75/25

In her position as a stay at home mum, you can look to pay maintenance until the youngest is 18, she stays in the house until then, and you get 20% of the equity.

Ultimately, the assets need to be split 50/50, including the house

This is not true. The assets need to be split fairly. That is not necessarily 50/50. Indeed, in the situation described by the OP (wife primary carer for children, husband with much higher earning potential) it is likely that the OP will get significantly less than 50% of the assets.

ustbxh - as others have said, you need to see a solicitor who can provide proper advice once they are in possession of all the relevant facts. Do not agree to anything until you have spoken to a solicitor. You don't have to slug it out in court (indeed, I would strongly recommend that you don't!) but you need proper advice from an experienced professional, not internet randoms.

@googlegoals
Please don’t state silly, made up numbers. There isn’t really starting position. It varies on the situation.
She can only stay in the house if she can afford to pay the mortgage.
All your numbers are so random and out of thin air- it’s ridiculous.

OP, I think all of this just shows you that you just need a good solicitor rather than Mumsnet

The starting point is 75/25? Did they change that this afternoon?

OP just go and see a solicitor ASAP. Ask around for recommendations or see a few and see who you're comfortable with. They're going to be in your life for a while...

@ustbxh I'm afraid maintenance won't count in mortgage calculations. I would encourage your stbxw to perhaps tentatively return to employment to enable her to apply with a substantial deposit if you were to give her more equity in exchange for retaining your pension?

With a higher salary you would be able to borrow much more than her, therefore perhaps the best for you both.

The problem I have is if we don't sell the house then I won't have a deposit so the amount I can borrow becomes irrelevant. I obviously don't want to make her life harder than it has to be but I'm not happy about being forced out of being able to buy a house so she can live in a over the top house.

One mortgage company told me they would consider my child maintenance payments if they were set by a court.

ustbxh - The court will want to make sure everyone has a roof over their heads. However, that doesn't mean you will get what you want. You may have to look at a no deposit mortgage. But no-one on here can tell you anything definitive. See a solicitor.

Sorry @ustbxh I did mean selling the house to share equity and both begin again in separate properties.

What would be sensible is both of you having a few hours advice from a solicitor (need one each) and getting all your options spelt out.

What you both need to consider if you go x route or y route. Then sit down with your wife and try and see what is acceptable to both of you.

Then you can get the solicitors involved but you've hopefully avoided a few 100s or even 1000s in letters back and forth negotiating.

If you can't agree then ultimately you will need to get solicitors involved to negotiate. Or perhaps mediation would be good here?

I would stress that lack of compromise in both sides only benefits solicitors in the long run through increased legal fees.

Child maintenance can be included as income for a mortgage...like every lender has their own rules as to what they will and won’t accept as income. It’s about finding one who will.

@wildhairdontcare ah that makes more sense. Totally, and although I love my home, I'd rather sell it and beable to create a new home rather than rent.

It's all fine and well talking about going to a solicitor, but the ones I've spoken to have essentially said that until she does the same it's pointless.

Does anyone have any real life experience of a similar situation to mine? I know each case is different but I'd like to find out some real life outcomes.

There is a definitive answer to what you can expect financially. It is either (a) what you agree with your ex-wife, with or without mediation or (b) what a court decides you should get. This might sound flippant, but I think it's useful to remember, because (b) informs (a). If you try to negotiate anything directly and your ex-wife finds out that a court would likely award her significantly more then she probably won't agree to it.

So what could you expect in court? First, forget about who put in what, who worked, who didn't, who or how or when those choices were made. Instead, look at what you each need. Your ex-wife needs a home for her and the children and you need a home (and perhaps a home in which the children can visit you, assuming you intend that). If they're going to be at your ex-wife's home mostly and yours only for short visits then it's likely that your ex-wife will need more space than you need. e.g. 1 boy and 1 girl she might want (fairly reasonably) a 3 bedroom home, whilst you could have just a 1 bedroom and you sleep on the sofa and they share a room on visits. If you were each having them 50/50 then you'd each have the same needs.

Now the court will likely look at how that can be achieved. It's unlikely the court would care much whether that means you have to rent rather than buy - as long as you have somewhere to live. They will look at how much you could borrow and how much of a deposit you can get, but ultimately if you can't get a deposit together then you'll have to rent.

The sums are pretty simple. If you sell the house you had and it gives enough money for deposits on two suitable properties, with two mortgages, serviced by you and your ex-wife in some combination, then it's pretty reasonable that a court would do that. If the house is bigger than she needs (say more than 3 bedrooms; nobody in this situation gets to need a guest bedrooms, a study and a playroom) and the moving costs didn't rule it out then a court might want her to downsize to release some equity to you. But otherwise, you'll have to rent.

If your wife stays in the house you will be able to put a charge over it so you effectively still own part of it and will be paid of on some triggering event, usually your wife remarrying or the children completing education (sometimes at 18, but sometimes further education, so more like 21 or 22).

How your wife pays for the mortgage will be considered - after all it does have to be paid. She will be expected to work once the children are both at school, but if there is a shortfall then it'll have to come from you.

Lastly keep in mind that in any split of assets other things are taken into account, like your respective ages and life expectancy (if you're 75 now and she's 25 she's got to fund a lot more years of life than you have), and earning respective earning potential.

These are general principles which might help you, not hard and fast rules; you'll always hear of cases where one person got X and the other got Y and it's way out of whack. But most of all, understand that when there isn't enough money for everyone to have everything they want (even the life they had before; judges are more realistic than that and realise that you can't expect two people to live separate lives on the same income as before and maintain the same standard of living) then it's a question of need, with the children's need put far and above you or your ex-wife's needs.

Good luck and if you can avoid going to court, do so, because they'll just add to the anguish and the cost.

Child maintenance was considered in my mortgage application. I had to show what we'd agreed in the divorce and show bank statements that he'd paid it for the last year.

Not sure why she'd get spousal maintenance - thought that went out years ago?!

@WanterOfTruth2

Thanks for your information, makes lots of sense. We have 2 boys and live in a very large (for the area) 4 bedroom house with 3 large living areas. The house feels significantly oversized for us 4, never mind 3.

Although she's driving the divorce and I absolutely don't want it, I have no desire to "punish" her or be "tight" about finances.

If I were to pay £2400/month, although that's a little more than I'd like to, I wouldn't have an issue with it as long as there was a view of this reducing in due course. The only issue I really have around that arrangement is the lack of deposit and my inability to buy a house. If we were to sell and I give her say, 2400/month that would be more than enough to fund a mortgage and life in a more sensible sized 3 bedroom house in the local area however she wouldn't be able to get a mortgage, and obviously the 2400 wouldn't be continuing for the duration of her mortgage, if she could get one.

There's not much point in talking about a scenario where she requires a mortgage and can't get one. In some ways the court system is pretty brutal, but it's ultimately (usually) fairly pragmatic.

Do the numbers stack up for the house to be sold, a new house bought for her of an appropriate size using a mortgage that you take out, given that she can't, then you buy another house to live in for yourself (which presumably would also have a mortgage which you'd have to pay)?

Reducing the amount you give her only works for her if her income goes up, but as I say she could reasonably be expected to work once the youngest goes to school.

Who is divorcing whom, and why, has no relevance to the finances. A wish to punish or not, if it went to court, wouldn't have any relevance either. The more dispassionate you can be the easier the negotiations might be.

@WanterOfTruth2

Yes, I guess that the figures would work out to buy two houses.

But if the mortgage was in my name but used "her" deposit surely that would create complications going forward as I'd own her house