Wife is divorcing me - What can I expect financially

[ustbxh]

Looking for some information as to what I can realistically expect out of a seemingly inevitable divorce.

My wife of 10 years is looking for divorce, there is no single event which has caused this and we're both equally to blame for the breakdown of the marriage, although she's the one pushing for the divorce.

She's been a SAHM for the last 6 years - we've got a 3 & 6 year old. She didn't have a "career" before giving up work - earning 15-20k/year full time.

I'm a "high earner" I guess. Child Maintenance payments are going to be around £1200/month. Not sure if it's pertinent but my job has always been driven by our family's financial needs, I am not career driven and she's always had the option to return to work and I find a more practical job (I work away a lot which makes her working difficult) but financially, it's never made sense for her to return to work and me work away less. This has always been a financial based decision and never due to "my career" thus I don't feel that she has "sacrificed" anything to be a SAHM, in fact, I think she's had it extremely fortunate that this was possible.

Her desire seems to be to stay in the family home which realistically costs around £2800-3000/month to run including children's expenses such as clubs / activities. Savings / Holidays / personal disposable income is on top of that.

We have about £130k equity.

She has ideas of staying in the house, and me funding the majority of the costs (£2400ish) through child maintenance and spousal maintenance and she'd cover the rest - through benefits and presumably a job.

At some undefined point in the future she'd sell the house and I guess the equity at the time would be split (50/50?)

Financially the above would work - I think - and I'd be able to afford a reasonable lifestyle myself, however I would not have any equity to buy a house so would be stuck renting which I am greatly against. We'd always planned to be mortgage free in our early 50's but that's looking very unlikely now, even less so if I rent.

She is against selling the house due to the impact having cash assets has on benefits for her and her inability to get a mortgage, thus she'd be stuck renting....

Should I suck it up and agree to something along these lines, or am I being taken for a ride?

I have no idea what the norm is. Everyone I've known who's been through divorce have both worked so I have no experience of what's realistic etc.

TIA.

@mummmy2017

Totally agree regarding her not being single and given the fact I would have no way to stop her moving a new partner into the house which I still fund, and with no prospect of reducing the payments (unless they were married, or going back to court) this is something I have thought about, but as much as this pains me, ultimately it's about the kids and I won't let my self pride get in the way of providing the best life I can for them. There's obviously a happy medium somewhere, and it is this that I'm struggling to find.

The reason she is so adamant to stay in the house is that she wouldn't be able to get a mortgage, thus she'd have to rent. There is also an issue with benefit entitlements if she has cash from the sale. I suspect she'd not stay in the area if that were the case as she doesn't have family here so there are many emotional factors beyond the pure financial "rights and wrongs". If I end up paying more than would be usual but she stays in the area and access to my kids is easier and more frequent then that's certainly a price worth paying - and I'm more than sure she's not oblivious to this fact.

It sounds like I should possibly put more thought into the impact my pension will have, I best start making some enquires.

@wobytide I take home on a normal month about £5100, but there's a bonus and shares on top adhoc throughout the year, I guess worked out over the year, maybe 6k/month take-home.

Thanks.

@FlorenceandtheWashingMachine

I may have paraphrased a little too much regarding the solicitors comments - essentially what he said was that because there's no magical formula, until she puts her "claim" in as to what her "needs" are and how much money she needs vs how much she has per month, there's no way to know what is actually going to be the outcome.

Does anyone have a view on if this went to court do the court take into account "reasonability" when assessing maintenance and housing, or given that there is arguably more than enough money in the monthly "pot" to allow her to stay in the house, me fund the vast majority and and fund a perfectly acceptable life for myself, would the court take the approach that this was a reasonable arrangement - even so the house far exceeds her needs and her main sole purpose is her lack of ability to get a mortgage?

It is not your responsibility to ensure your Ex stays on the property ladder in a house of her choice, and as she is the one driving the separation there's no need for you to feel guilty about it. She can either downsize to something more realistic, or rent somewhere as spacious, it's up to her. Plenty of children move house and if she thinks she can push for a divorce with no financial impact on your children - well she's living in cloud cuckoo land.

I'm sure moving on/finding someone new is the last thing on your mind right now but believe me, it will happen. Don't screw up your future based on how you are feeling right now. I've seen a lot of newly separated people fall into this trap and regret it down the line.

What are her plans to become self sufficient? What are her plans to return to work and increase her own earning potential. That’s what you should be looking at, rather than funding her lifestyle for decades.

@MyCatHatesEverybody

Fully agree - but overall I'd rather my kids lived in an "owned" house than a rental house (no disrespect to anyone who rents), and given that's financially possible, is that not the best option?

My other concern is around timing - if for example she stayed here until the youngest was 18 - unless something drastic changed, we'd need to sell at that point and that would be significant disruption to the children at a very critical point in their life - they would lose their "home" at that point and never regain the feeling of "home". I am very sentimental to this point as I never moved as a child, and my parents still live in the same house I grew up in, and it is still very much "home" in lots of aspects. I feel if the kids are going to move, while they are younger would be better, but I would want that move to be a long term, sustainable option, which I appreciate I can't control my stbx and her decisions, but I'd prefer not to be part of the reason why a move now was unsustainable - ie a move into a rented house.

Feels like fixing our marriage is a far less complex task :)

@millymollymoomoo

I presume she has plans, but I think she believes she won't have to until the kids are 7 - not sure how true that is, but I've seen this mentioned in various places.

I get what you're saying OP but the thing is if/when some new chap moves into your former family home that you're paying for whilst you yourself are in rented accommodation you will start to feel resentment. And that will spill out in your dealings with your ex, trust me. Likewise it will probably cause complications for you as and when you yourself move on. What happns if you go on to have more children? Right now although you are splitting up from your wife you don't yet have the emotional separation from her that will grow more and more as time goes on. Your wife needs to buy a smaller family home whilst the DC are still young enough to adapt easily, and you can buy your own home which can also become a stable fixture in your DC's lives.

I am not a qualified legal person but I have been though divorce myself and was a moderator on a divorce support forum. In the same way that cheaters have a "script" - so does divorce and separation.

@Missillusioned

Okay so out of the pensions I've been able to easily find today - I think there may be one small one missing - I am at about double the value I'd anticipated, so yes, I did underestimate there.

@ustbxh the issue may be that if your wife has little or no pension, you may end up needing to give her more of the equity in the house to balance out your pension.

I was told by my bank that they would accept child maintenance and tax credits as income for a mortgage. If your wife has a good credit record and a substantial deposit she may find a lender on that basis.

@Missillusioned

Yip - my pensions are worth over half of the equity we have so that's a little worrying....

Oh and when you get divorced everyone tells you the wife and children have ' the right to stay in the house until the youngest is 18'. This is untrue except for in certain exceptional circumstances, but your wife may have people telling her this. A solicitor will say otherwise.

I can see you want to keep the children near by,. And feel paying everything will do this, but you need too see that your better off getting a minimum CS sorted,. And paying more because you want to.... Phrase it as your willing to offer her X.... And then pay all the out of school expenses directly as this way you will know what they are doing...
Then you will know this money is spent on the children direct .. not you offer her X and she cancels the after school things and pockets the money....

The court would consider what is reasonable, though clearly one person's definition of reasonable can differ from another's. If the situation were more extreme the outcome would be more obvious - for example if your current family home had 10 bedrooms with a large amount of equity and you couldn't get a mortgage to buy a place of your own the court would think it reasonable for that house to be sold, your wife downsizes and this releases enough money for you to buy a house too. But on the flip side, the court isn't going to care that much about whether you buy or rent, as long as you have somewhere reasonable to live (as opposed to say sleeping on your parents' sofa).

I think the solicitors you've spoken to are being a bit lazy to be honest. You don't need to wait until you see what she claims to need before you can start figuring out what to do - you can see what she needs. It is true that the legal process would have her declare what she feels her requirements are, but a court would likely dismiss any nonsense there - again, it's all about needs because there just isn't enough money for you both to lead the life you did previously but do so in separate houses. Take a good hard look at what your current household budget looks like and from that work out both her needs and yours. Then work out what you've got and how it can meet both sets of needs.

On a personal level I think children would find the family home being sold when they're 18 (or 21) to be less of an upheaval than it would be selling it now, given they probably won't be living in it when they're adults. You might not have the luxury of making that choice, i.e. sell now or later, but personally I wouldn't use disruption now versus when they've left home as a deciding factor. The thing that will determine how your kids feel about all this is how you and your ex-wife treat each other, not the housing situation.

I've no idea why people say spousal maintenance no longer exists. It most certainly does. And if your ex wife can't work or can only earn a very low income it could be payable until either she remarries or either of you dies. You might be able to get an order which states other conditions, such as her cohabiting, but it's not a given. Given that an ex can apply for a change in an order if either party's financial situation changes, if you think your income might increase and your ex's will not then you might want to try for a clean break, which will cost more now, but you then won't pay maintenance, though you'd probably still pay child maintenance.

Her staying in the house because of the mortgage situation is a bit of a red herring. You are obliged to inform the mortgage company of the situation regardless of whether you keep the house or not, for example if you as the mortgage payer move out. If you can support the mortgage under those circumstances you can likely get a new one. If she won't accept that then you could agree to downsize now whilst you're still married into a house you can afford for her to stay in, then separate. Or as others have suggested, you could remortgage to release some equity, but that only works if you can afford those increased repayments as well as the repayments on a new mortgage. And don't forget, you won't be borrowing a very high LTV ratio on the second property.

You will also need to consider arrangements for the children - remember if they're with you half the time then your needs for housing would be the same as hers.

@WanterOfTruth2

Thanks for your voice of reason.

A few points worth clarifying probably.

Take a good hard look at what your current household budget looks like and from that work out both her needs and yours.

We currently (and have for the last 7 or so years) budget extensively. Every penny (literally) is accounted for on a month by month basis. Assuming reduction in such items as food, council tax, potentially utilities (due to being in the house less) the total is around £2400, but that excludes spending money and childrens activities. It's this £2400 she is wanting me to cover.

And if your ex wife can't work or can only earn a very low income it could be payable until either she remarries or either of you dies.

This had concerned my greatly, but I thought I'd come to the conclusion this was a highly unlikely (impossible) outcome. As I mentioned in my first post, she did not give up a "career" and has always had the option to return to work. It has been 100% her choice not to do so, and instead lived a very casual life (I am not understating the role of a SAHM but she's had it very comfortable). I would feel extremely aggrieved if after only 7 years of not working a sub 20k job I was expected to fund her for eternity. This would seem in no way at all fair.

Surely the non-financial and emotional gain she has had by being able to be a SAHM due to my salary offsets some expectations of me taking care of her for ever?

If it came down to it, a clean break would be favourable, I work away a lot and could realistically live at my parents (plenty of space) for a year or so and save a deposit for a house if I needed to and there was a clear benefit to doing so - ie clean break. That would obviously involve her agreeing to selling the house.

You are obliged to inform the mortgage company of the situation regardless of whether you keep the house or not, for example if you as the mortgage payer move out. If you can support the mortgage under those circumstances you can likely get a new one.

The mortgage is in joint names, why would there be a requirement to change anything on the mortgage?

Thanks.

A friend was in a very similar position. High earner, similar child maintenance payments. She ended the marriage and was a SAHM, dcs were 4 & 6. He had wanted her to return to work during their marriage but she flatly refused. Even threatened to divorce him if he kept asking!

The starting point for negotiations from the wife was £5k per month spousal/CM plus all the equity, leaving his pension. They couldn't agree and it turned pretty acrimonious, complicated by the fact she had actually met someone else during the marriage but this only became apparent a few months after he had moved out.

I think you are much better off with a clean break if possible. Things can sour quickly once people move on.

You might be better off getting this thread moved to divorce/separation.

Is it possible that you could sell the house and buy her a modest 3 bed house with the equity or pay off most of the mortgage and just get a small mortgage in her name with her benefits and maintenance? You could then get a much higher mortgage with your equity and then just pay her the maintenance?

@reachedbreakingpoint

I've just started a thread over there. I wanted the more legal / technical answers on this thread and I'm looking for the emotional / moral ones on the other thread. I hope that's ok on here?

@Itsallchange not really I think with costs of moving - never mind legal fees for the divorce, at best case, we'd be looking at 50% LTV for her property.

Bit of background - we moved from a very nice 3 bed house around the corner (about 150meters away) to this very large 4 bed house late last year. She now seems very very determined to not sell this. It feels slightly fishy but I have no evidence to back this up. I should add, the move was 100% driven by her desire for a bigger house.

@reachedbreakingpoint

The starting point for negotiations from the wife was £5k per month spousal/CM plus all the equity, leaving his pension.

5k is about the size of the monthly pot so......

It wasn't far off the whole pot for him either!

Was a ridiculous request

OP, have you thought about whether you want to continue you career long term? Might the extensive travelling combined with being the non resident parent make your relationship with your kids more difficult.

@Turpy

I'm glad you mentioned this - this is a real pain point. My job (I prefer not to call it a career because it really isn't), has been driven 100% by the families financial needs. There has always been a trade off and acknowledged compromise that me being away probably 50% of the time gives a significantly inflated salary compared to a local job, but that has allowed us to enable my STBXW a SAHM. I am generally frustrated that the sacrifices I've made to enable her to be a SAHM are diminished during a divorce. Just as it's absolutely wrong for me to say she doesn't add value to the family because she doesn't contribute financially, it's equally wrong to say that she has sacrificed anything for my "career" when she's had the privilege of being able to be a SAHM and infact, the only reason I work away and earn 130ish K is because she's a SAHM. I feel like I've sacrificed a significant amount. When your child is crying on the door step telling you he doesn't want you to go to work because you've been in the house less that 48 hours since your last work trip is mentally destroying.

So, in answer to your question, yes, absolutely I've thought about this. I could get a local job paying about 50% of what I earn now. That would not be enough to run two homes and would cause significant financial strain all round, it would certainly make the logistics easier, and I'd definitely get to have the kids more during the week, but we'd not live in the area we do, and there'd be lots of other considerations to factor in. I honestly don't know if that would be better or not.

Thanks for all the messages. I'm trying to do the right thing without doing the wrong thing. If that makes sense.

I think you may have been played for a four bed. .
What if you are ill bang goes the house ...
Please go for a clean break....
Let her sort her money out from there...
You said she wanted the Divorce,. So why are you rewarding her for making you work away all the time and not see your children...
You need to work to live . Not live to work..

I was a SAHM and my XH was the high earner. We got everything valued- house, cars, pension- and that gave us total assets. I got 60% of the assets as I was housing the DC and had no income so couldn't get a mortgage. That 60% was enough to pay off the whole mortgage so I got the house in my name and mortgage free. I did have to sign over my claim to his pension to achieve it. I get no spousal support because it was a clean break due to the house transfer, I but do get child maintenance and not having a mortgage means that goes a bit further each month.

I’ve seen your thread on legal. You seem like a nice man but I think you’re being naive and are being played a fool. Sorry

She simply can’t afford to stay in the house and if she wants to she needs to take steps to go to work. You’re not expected to pay 100% of her living costs.

Total up the house and pension, look at something like 60/40 or 70/30 clean break or limited spousal for couple years

If you don’t wise up you’re going to end up living in a one bed flat funding her lifestyle when she’s living it up having moved a new chap into playing happy families with your children in a house you’re funding