How Untidy Do You Have To Be?

[HowMessy]

Not sure if this is the right place, hopefully there will be someone who sees who can answer this. How untidy does a house have to be for an other wise loving and good parent to have child protection proceedings?

My mum has just reported me to social services for being too untidy. She is happy to state I'm a good mum, I am caring, I give my children lots of opportunities etc but she thinks I'm too untidy.

In the last 6 months I have had visits from different professionals (not for child protection) at least once a month and none have expressed concern, in fact when she put the complaint in I was still under a family support team and the case closed (they were looking to see if they could find a way to help me with school runs as one of my children has mobility problems as do I). The social worker asked the worker about it and she said she had no concerns, Mum's response (she had this call whilst I was with her) was "I'd like to see what her house looks like then!" well she may need to look at the houses of 7 different people who have visited me in that case!

I admit I'm not the tidiest person, but I don't think it's that bad (certainly in a previous relationship and whilst I was childless it was a lot worse and has got steadily better since I had children) it's not so bad that we can't vac 2-3 times a week (as I said, I have mobility issues and pulling a vac around isn't easy for me or it'd get done more often) there's nothing about that's dangerous to the children.

Mum is a child protection social worker and it feels like she's asking her friends to tell me to tidy my room (she did that when I was a teenager!) my previous HV said that she kept trying to get her to make a referral about me but she had told her that it wasn't that bad (it was worse than it is now when she last came here) she told me that Mum isn't taking her work hat off and whilst she might make an issue of a house that looks like mine she can't see that it would be as part of something else and that on it's own she (HV) wouldn't refer it.

I have a social worker making a visit on Monday which will be the first time we've met him. Half of me is convinced he'll say that it's nothing to worry about but I'm also worried because I'm not sure Mum will let them drop it so easily.

His parents are about as clean as mine and trust her as the expert. She uses lots of technical words that leave people bamboozled!

I know I'm not brilliant, but I have ways around things, I allow one of each type of plate per person out so that we never have piles of washing up; washing is done as a game between me and the oldest two to speed it up, make it easier swapping between machines and to keep the DC2 occupied; eldest likes to keep certain areas tidy that have been claimed; certain days we use to get certain things done. I try to keep things tidy as I go, not brilliant at it but we have a sort out a couple of times a week for anything we missed.

We're bringing the stuff back as it's ironed and when we've got stuff here we'll bring them back. She seems to have settled down since she said she wanted to keep them so we think she's not going to push it now. When I started this thread I really wanted to know how I compare because I was scared at what he would say today.

OH and Mum used to get on well, but now he says he wants nothing to do with her other than being polite when we see her.

Stop justifying yourself OP. If 7 professionals have visited including a social worker then there's nothing to worry about.

What's going on with your mum? What do you think her agenda is, honestly?

Your DH sounds like he is a good judge of character and I think it would be wise to keep your mum at arms length for a couple of months.

Where are your children now?

You still haven't got your dcs home?

I've had cockroaches twice in my life. Once 20 years ago in a shared ground floor flat next to a big market, and they were all over the marketplace as soon as it was packed up, and up through the drainpipes (it was a huge Victorian block of flats) so there wasn't a huge amount we could do about it. The second time they also came up through the drainpipes in a huge Georgian house, split into several flats, with shared plumbing. I kept pouring bleach down, and those industrial sink/drain unblockers, but cockroaches have a deserved reputation for being virtually indestructable, and as you'd need all the other flat owners to agree on shared pest control, we took the easy exit route, it being rented, and left. Not so simple with an HA. If a house is modern, or solely owned, it's relatively easy. As soon as plumbing and floorboards are shared it gets a lot more complex, and that goes multiple for period homes. Assuming people in flats are dirty because they have to contend with infestations that aren't originating in their space is unfair and inaccurate.

More seriously, I'm really shocked people reading this thread have chosen to start interrogating the OP over "the father of these children - is it the same one?" when she has clearly stated her DH, and her children's father, is away for work reasons. The prejudices thus exposed are deeply ugly, and that's without examining the issues in seeking to advise someone in a difficult situation without bothering to read what they actually say! Seriously bad manners, at the very least. Disturbingly cliched, kneejerk and prejudiced thinking at the worst.

And a lot of people play computer games! It's ridiculous to jump from that to calling someone "an obsessive gamer".

OP, if your mother refuses to hand them back, get an emergency appointment with a solicitor and a court order to FORCE her to give them back. You cannot afford to leave this to drift.

The house doesn't look that messy to me- ok, it won't be featured on MTV Cribs any time soon, but it looks like ordinary family clutter to me, and your mum sounds like a bit of a dragon.

Your house is a zillion times tidier than mine!

Sorry if some of the questions I asked earlier were offensive but sw will look for red flags like Dcs with multiple Dads.

Can I assume from you saying DC's room singular that you live in a 2 bedroom property?

No wonder it's so cluttered with 5 soon to be six of you in there. The living room and kitchen are both very small and it doesnt look like there's room anywhere to eat at a table with the whole family. Is this very different from how DM or you were brought up? eg DCs all with own rooms, big living rooms, dining area, house rather then flat, fewer DCs? Is she generally judgemental about your lifestyle. I honestly think I'd crack up if I had to share such a small space with so many people.

Could you get bunk beds so the elder DCs have more floor space in their bedroom so you can get the toys out of the living room and get a table in there? I'd also try to get proper flooring down in that hallway and clear the clutter- it is a bit of a fire hazard. do you have any storage cupboards? Could your DM let you store things at her house?

Could you get some upper cupboards fitted in the kitchen to clear more of the worksurfaces/floor? The rug and couches also look like they've seen better days- could you afford to replace them? There also wasnt a valance sheet on the DC's bed. Sure none of these things is a massive issue and your DM is TOTALLY overreacting but I think you may all feel better if you improve your environment a little.

I really do not understand why your dcs are still with her when the SW has supported you today. Why have you left them with her another night!? (I'm genuinely puzzled BTW, not asking aggressively at all.)

If my mum did this I would be round there in a taxi with bin bags for the clothes to take them all home with me and the dcs, and she would not be interfering in my life in such a serious and abusive way ever again.

Your Mum sounds like a bully and you sound like someone who is used to placating a bully and has forgotten how to stand up for themselves. Your house looks OK to me - would be better if you had some flooring in the hall but hey. I really wouldn't worry about valance sheets, tbh!

She's not talking about keeping them anymore so I'm not so worried, she's washed and ironed everything, we've had some back and she's said she will give it me the rest when it's done so I'm a little happier about them being there but won't leave them for long. The SW went over there tonight to talk to them and wanted to talk to them on their own and talk to my parents so it wasn't really a good idea for me to take them.

We do have a dining table, it's where I was stood taking the pictures, it's not a bad sized living room actually, just difficult to get a good idea on a picture. We have a three bed house, youngest is with me at the moment, we're getting bunks so that the cot can go in there and when the baby is old enough we'll put two in each room. At the moment the third room is used for the wardrobes to give them space in their room. There's not really many toys downstairs.

The clutter in the hall, apart from my sewing machine, is in the cupboard under the stairs and there's a shoe rack by the door, nothing on the floor in front of it.

Decor here is because this is an ex-decant (ie a property the HA use to temporarily put people in when they need to work in their's) so it's decorated very neutrally, lovely blue cord (that hates the vacuum) everywhere (except the DC room/ closet) the floor everywhere is proper flooring, just laminate. Can't afford to replace at the moment, especially whilst it does the job. Sofas aren't too bad, we are coming into some soon.

The house I grew up in was an ex-council house, quite a typical one with a small living room, kitchen/ diner off with bathroom coming off the kitchen and 3 bed. My sister and I shared whilst my brother had his own room. We didn't have a decent sized house really until I was a teenager.

I'm not sure why the amount of fathers and a lot of other stuff even came up. The only thing that has been raised is that I'm too untidy, they've been told (in front of me) how wonderful a parent I am, loving, caring, give them lots of opportunities... As Mum is a SW if that was one of the concerns (amongst all these other things that people are inventing) it would have come up.

house looks adequate and with small kids no point getting new stuff - so long as is clean !
your mother sounds insane.

Your house looks like a typical family home and I am glad that your SW supported you.

Sorry if some of the questions I asked earlier were offensive but sw will look for red flags like Dcs with multiple Dads.

A red flag for me is a poster on a sensitive thread such as Legal, asking impertinent, aggressive questions when the OP's own words make it clear they are also redundant. And what makes you so sure children from more than one relationship are a "red flag" anyway? Are you a social worker, CAFCASS officer or family lawyer?

I also think "valance sheets" are the epitome of Hyacinth Bucket naff, myself. So painfully dated in decor terms, and actually really not ideal for kids with asthma as they harbour dustmites. You seriously think that would "improve the environment"?

Howmessy I hope she returns them asap, but if she keeps delaying please ignore what she says and focus on what she does. This is utterly outrageous behaviour.

From those photos your home is perfectly fine for kids.

I think it's hilarious the amount of posters that criticise online gaming like WoW but will waste hours and hours of their lives on here or sitting in front of the TV. I can't see how there is any difference

Especially as the OP stated:

I think the fact that we play World of Warcraft is part of it because it's been a factor in a few of her cases lately, but I play weekly if that, he plays a little more often and we're not into the raiding that is time intensive, we're part of a grown up guild where everyone has life priorities. We don't allow the children on it which has been an issue she's come across.

Apparently that's "obsessive".

I think certain people knew what they expected to read before bothering to do so and didn't pay the slightest attention to the OP's actual words, frankly. Last thing she needs in a difficult and painful situation. I wish people would either take the time to read properly before they comment on threads that matter, or not comment at all. How hard can that be?

OP about the coakroaches, if you get a decent bug man in they wont come back as they put this sort of repellent stuff on the walls that doesnt really go away, the bug man we used gives us life time guarantee, so basically if they come back he will re do for free, and we have ahad a few from neighbours etc, but not enough to call him back, maybe one every month or less, and we kill it with boiling kettle water.

if you are in london i can ask my dh for number

your house is cleaner then mine

As a SW, your DM would know that Dc are only removed for abuse or serious neglect.

She could lose her job for making malicious allegations, and if this is 'her' dept, I would guess that she would want to keep any family difficulties away form work.

Yet she still has your DC and most of their clothes

I have never known a SW strip beds or get too involved with house inspections

It's concerning that your 6 yr old talks to you as if you are a child. Don't really know what to say except SS will be looking at things from your DC's point of view. Not about housework. Hope things go well for DC

I haven't seen a SW since having DC so not sure if stripping beds is a routine thing or not, but if it is unusual, I'm wondering if your mum had acually said something specific about the beds when she reported you? Could she have accused you of having bedbugs or something?!

Either that or they were just horrified you didn't have a valance sheet

Your house looks fine, mine is worse than that in terms of clutter and when I had a HV round and I apologised for the mess, she said don't worry it's just family mess. I was actually hoping for a referral as I said we are struggling ATM, but she said we are clearly coping in the ways that really matter, and I'm sure if she'd had any concerns about the house she would've said.