How Untidy Do You Have To Be?

[HowMessy]

Not sure if this is the right place, hopefully there will be someone who sees who can answer this. How untidy does a house have to be for an other wise loving and good parent to have child protection proceedings?

My mum has just reported me to social services for being too untidy. She is happy to state I'm a good mum, I am caring, I give my children lots of opportunities etc but she thinks I'm too untidy.

In the last 6 months I have had visits from different professionals (not for child protection) at least once a month and none have expressed concern, in fact when she put the complaint in I was still under a family support team and the case closed (they were looking to see if they could find a way to help me with school runs as one of my children has mobility problems as do I). The social worker asked the worker about it and she said she had no concerns, Mum's response (she had this call whilst I was with her) was "I'd like to see what her house looks like then!" well she may need to look at the houses of 7 different people who have visited me in that case!

I admit I'm not the tidiest person, but I don't think it's that bad (certainly in a previous relationship and whilst I was childless it was a lot worse and has got steadily better since I had children) it's not so bad that we can't vac 2-3 times a week (as I said, I have mobility issues and pulling a vac around isn't easy for me or it'd get done more often) there's nothing about that's dangerous to the children.

Mum is a child protection social worker and it feels like she's asking her friends to tell me to tidy my room (she did that when I was a teenager!) my previous HV said that she kept trying to get her to make a referral about me but she had told her that it wasn't that bad (it was worse than it is now when she last came here) she told me that Mum isn't taking her work hat off and whilst she might make an issue of a house that looks like mine she can't see that it would be as part of something else and that on it's own she (HV) wouldn't refer it.

I have a social worker making a visit on Monday which will be the first time we've met him. Half of me is convinced he'll say that it's nothing to worry about but I'm also worried because I'm not sure Mum will let them drop it so easily.

Im sorry but this makes my blood run cold.
Im not the tidiest person but my dc have cleam clothes get fed and attend school every day

Weve just come back off holiday gone back ro work and dc just back to school and you cant see my lounge floor for laundry.. (all clean and dry just needing sorting and putting away)

You need to get you children back now. I can't believe you let her take all their clothes even clean put away ones .
Who washes and irons clean clothes ?
Nobody unless they have an agenda and I believe your mother has no intention of voluntarily letting your dc return home,
Can you go to the police ?
For all you know she could be getting an ex parte residence order( I think that's where you don't have to tell the other person) or working towards getting SS to award residence to her.
At the moment she has no rights to your children they live with you and your dh- GET THEM HOME.

Go & get your kids back from your Mum, she sounds like she has an agenda.

Tell SS what is going on. Also surely clothes were stolen - go to the police.

Surely she is harassing you and behaving unprofessionally.

Your house sounds FAR tider and better kept than mine. Honestly.

The only things I have issues with, from a stranger's POV are the cockroaches - which CANNOT be allowed to inhabit your property - if it's ownded by a HA they need to sort it NOW - call the council, asap, please, if you haven't already done so - this is a big problem and not one you can be expected to sort for yourself.

And your mother, who sounds like she is extremely controlling and being very abusive. I'm sorry - it just sounds that way.

I hope you are Ok. You have worked very hard on this thread to try and prove to everyone that you're doing the right things. You must be exhausted.
I think you have done a pretty good job though, we are all really worried for your situation, and I don't think any of us is judging you on the housework side of it.

I am way behind you in terms of housekeeping!

Are all three DC with your mum now? Earlier in the thread you said that two were with the other set of Grandparents. What do the other set of GP think?

I appreciate that it's probably very stressful being pg with your DH away and having three DC to look after whilst your mum is undermining you. However, from an outside perspective, things such as her taking clean clothes to wash would make me think that they weren't really clean to begin with. (I'm not doubting they were clean btw, it's just such a strange thing to do that i can't think of another explanation!)

She knows exactly what SS will be looking for and if she is just abusing you via her role, she already has an advantage. I would take any advice given by the SW with regards to your home/mum.

Just wondering if you could get some help from surestart if you have problems that stop you being able to do some things in the house.

I also believe you should make a formal complaint to your Mums superiors.

I'd love a tidy house, I just don't know how to do it

Start clearing your junk - cupboard by cupboard, room by room, surface by surface. Be REALLY ruthless. Then once you have regained some of your space, KEEP ON TOP OF IT. Throw things away rather than hoarding them.

Once you have started clearing junk out of your storage space it is easier to keep tidy

Otherwise it is a case of huge guilt and anguish over how much I paid for them, what a waste it was, and things like that

But you will never be able to get back your investment. There was a massive organising thread a while ago on AIBU (will try to find the link) and someone on that thread mentioned this exact problem and it made me think about it in a completely new way.

Is it really worth keeping loads of stuff that is making you miserable, your house a mess that doesn't feel like a relaxing, lovely shelter from the world just because it cost you a couple of quid ???

This is the bit off the thread that really helped me
It's the very fact that you are bogged down with stuff that is causing your inertia. There's simply no need for you to keep hold of baby gear, is there? Really? Same with your clothes that you don't wear...everytime you open your wardrobe I bet you instantly feel defeated and confused, yes? And, this is because mentally your brain is having to sort through what you can/can't wear, what does'doesn't fit...and it's draining

be ruthless, throw junk away.
Make sure the kids have nice comfy clean beds.
call rentokil or the council to deal with the cockroaches as a priority.
go and get your kids from your mum, she has an agenda and will use her inside knowledge.
make sure the kitchen and loos are clean as a minimum.
some SW might take a messy house as a sign of a chaotic lifestyle,others will see it as neglect in itself.
I am not judging you just giving best advice I can.

Hi I've read all the posts. I agree with the people saying be Very careful with your mother, it sounds like she has an agenda & she knows how the system works.
Can you call a friend with a car to do you a favour & give the kids & clothes a lift home?
In case this helps for the house & proving to social services what you do- www.flylady.com

Good luck xo

Nigel - thankyou so much for those posts.

I can seewhat you are saying - it is draining to have to make decisions, to mentally rummage through everything. But that's something I can't seem to change from the top down, iyswim.

For instance I know if I throw away the stuff I'm keeping now, I will still buy more things I don't really need, it'll just happen all over again and I won't learn anything from it.

I'm not sure that keeping this stuff helps in any way, but throwing it away wouldn't, either. Not longer term.

I need to get to grips with my emotional situation before I can make changes on the surface. There are little steps and small changes happening all the time, maybe by the time I am 90 I will have a tidy house

Sorry OP for hijack. I'll go away and tidy up something now...

Ed, can you imagine yourself sitting down to relax in the middle of a sparkling living room, completely free of clutter ? Or getting up in the morning and knowing that the clothes in the wardrobe are all nice, tidy, clean and easy to access ? That every time you open a cupboard you won't have to fight your way round piles of junk to get to what you want ?

Our home has been so much nicer since I started chucking stuff. Starting is the key - start off with a small area like a kitchen drawer and get a big black bag. Or what really helped me get rid of things that had cost money was taking them to a charity shop. Then I felt as if their cost had not been completely wasted.

Get your kids and your clothes back from your mum.

It sounds like she's making it look like she is the one looking after them full-time, (clothes at her house, bedding at her house) and that you aren't capable.

And warn her that if she tries to report you again you will report her for abusing her work position for personal reasons.

Nigel, yes, I try to imagine life being like that. I can't cope with it.

It's almost as if I need all these obstacles in the way as they help me to hide from what I really should be doing.

That sounds nuts doesn't it.
I think I'm so afraid of living in the moment, of failing at it somehow - that I set myself up to fail all the time, or just to not engage with the present at all.

The clutter is what stops real life getting too close for comfort.
I like the charity idea though, that does help, yes.

what andimac said!

I hope you are collecting your DCs as we speak. I'm not sure what is stopping you.

Social worker or not, your DM sounds totally toxic and has most certianly has an agenda. I would get your Dcs back ASAP, seriously consider reprting yor M to her superiors and consider cutting her out of your life.

Before your social worker visit, you need dcs back, clothes back, beds made, have contacted LL about cockroahes (sound totally like it is a block thing). I and many other posters are totally behind you, good luck and keep us udated.

BTW, I have 3 Dcs and pregnant too and my house is a tip apart from for a few hours after I have done the house work or sometimes if someone is coming Shovelling snow and all that.

I?m going to risk being cruel and say you sound very passive at the least, and I can?t help wondering if there isn?t learnt helplessness and a very controlling mother going on here, or if I?m just projecting because you seem to be very like my friend and her controlling mother, and blind to how outrageous it is?

I?ve listened to friends mum telling magistrates how useless her daughter is, despite dumping younger brother on her to bring up when it suited, how she was a useless child who didn?t bring crockery out her room as some sort of proof that she couldn?t be trusted now to look after her home as a middle aged woman, how she used her rooms incorrectly as she didn?t use a conservatory as a dining room, and that would make the house a nicer place, (wtf?) how mum loved her son in law so much and he loved her back so much more than her daughter, because her daughter wasn?t a good enough cook, and she was, how he was too good for her daughter and should have come to her, etc, etc,

I watched my friend just sit bemused accepting it all because she?d taken it all so long, she accepted her own uselessness as a fact, and a disability meant she had never learned proper independence.

Funnily enough though not front line, friend?s mother also worked for SS CP!

I apologise if I?m wrong, but you sound so resigned, blind to how you're being set up (clothes and bedding is weird and big alarm bells) and as if you don?t have the right to do anything without someone in authority saying it?s ok or overseeing your competence, so either it?s all a lot worse than you are seeing it as, or you are being blinded to your own competence by an agenda ridden mum!

I hope you'll forgive me if I have the wrong end of the stick, I really want you to be ok.

I hope things are working out as I post. (Btw I?m a disabled mum who?s definitely no domestic goddess)

Just, I was thinking exactly the same thing

OP - go NOW and take your DC's back. Your mother has no legal right to keep them. Ask her for the clothes back, if she won't return them, but some emergency ones from Primark and contact the police.

If you go on like this, SS and CAFCASS will refuse to return your DC's because they are 'settled' with your mother.

Get a good friend round to take an outsider's view of your house, and tell them to be brutally honest with you.

I know how hard it is to keep on top of the housework when you have a disability/ health issues. HomeStart are a great help to me with that, doing the jobs I can't tackle.

Sort out the cockroaches. My house is a shit pit, to be frank, and I don't have roaches. Your LL/building manager has a responsibility to treat the building, start making phone calls.

Blitz the house. Just do it.

Anything you haven't used for 6 months, throw away. It's hard to do as a hoarder, but is necessary, especially as you probably won't have a loft in a flat or maisonette.

Go and get your DC's back, NOW!

Thinking of you OP.x

I can absolutely sympathise with your situation but you really do have to take action on this today.
Given the same set of circumstances here is what I would do right now, it might be relevant to you, it might not, please bear in mind that I can't see any photos of your house.

• Call Your mum, tell her, it's been lovely of her to help you out with this children, you really needed the break because of your condition/mobility issues, but you're now feeling much much better and will be over to pick them up first thing in the morning.

• Contact your landlord/housing authority/rentokil now, on their out of hours emergency number, get this cockroach issue sorted out immediately, do not wait for a response on this, if it's going to take days/weeks, pay for it yourself.

• Clear off and scrub every single flat surface in your home including the floors, take everything out of the fridge clean it with antibacterial cleaner, put some bicarb in there before you put all the good stuff back, empty all the rubbish, wash (or if necessary rewash) all cups, glasses, crockery etc, wash all your towels and tea towels and get fresh ones out, hoover and dust everywhere, clean door and cupboard fronts and handles and the bannisters on the stairs, get rid of anything not used by you and your children, clean your windows and mirrors, clean your bathroom pay attention to the front of the toilet and the floor around it, make sure that there is adequate clean storage for all of your kids clothes and toys, make sure all chemicals, cleaners etc are locked away. If you cannot do this yourself, get some help, if you cannot find free help, pay someone.

• Deactivate your wow account

• Put a menu plan for the week on the very clean fridge, put an age appropriate routine chart on your kids wall, maybe a few 'house rules' or a reward chart.

• In the morning, go to collect your children and their clothes as arranged. If necessary call the police to assist you.

• Be proactive in your contact with social services

Any sw coming into your home will see a happy, organised family home.

betty really? That seems so OTT.

I've been busy all day with the SW coming over and trying to catch up on not sleeping well last night plus an early call.

The social worker said he has no concerns. He couldn't find any mess or roaches, so all the advice here about how disgusting my house must be to have them, it's really not! He stripped the beds and all sorts looking for bugs and dirt, nope nothing there. When I said that there's not an infestation, I did mean it.

My parents had planned on having the eldest all last week to help with the school runs. They had the other two for one night to help out, offered to have #2 as well which I was fine with (DC2 doesn't sleep well without DC1 so they often go as a pair) then they said they would keep the youngest too, as I was exhausted I was happy for it. At that point I knew nothing about SS, no reason to be concerned. We're bringing the clothes back now but not doing it in one go so that we don't end up overwhelmed (they have a lot of clothes).

I am NOT an obsessive gamer, never have been and stated that further up thread too. I have logged on twice in the last week because of the new patch just to see what's been done, I don't remember the last time I played outside of a game night (when our friends come over) and it's been a few weeks since we had one of those, I regularly go months without playing. Our GM is an MNer with twin toddlers, everyone else is in similar position with either family or job situations that don't allow obsessive gaming, we are a very low level guild because no one has the time to build guild rep and no one cares. I have no intention of closing my account, I play usually once or twice a month. I'll get my GM to come on and tell you how often if it makes you feel better (I'll get another MNer to pop over and look for roaches and tell you how many she finds) but I'm certainly not a liar or in denial, according to this thread it's my mum that's the honest one and me the liar. I've often stated that threads on MN go that way, OP = liar, person they talk about is honest.

TheJiminyConjecture, they went over for the night because FIL is a builder and did some work for my parents and they didn't want them around because of the mess. They accept what she says, she's the expert after all. They were clean, nothing I do is good enough though. Even school and nursery have said that my children are always well presented.

charlottehere as already stated, the beds were stripped with my own bed to go in the wash, they were made up again afterwards and their room vacced, cushions/ teddies arranged nicely afterwards, pretty normal weekend stuff.

JustGettingOnWithIt it's just here, honest. I seem to be spending more time on this thread saying that Mum isn't being honest about me and I am being honest than anything else. It's also a little how I deal with things, I'm not passive, just quiet. He's been ranting constantly and I've had to ask him to stop because it's too much for me. My world is falling apart, my mum has been the model of honesty through my life, if you want to upset her you lie to her. This level of dishonesty from her is world shaking to me and that's on top of the betrayal. There's just not enough anger. I'm not letting it go though. The clothes thing isn't surprising to me in itself and she is sending it back.