How Untidy Do You Have To Be?

[HowMessy]

Not sure if this is the right place, hopefully there will be someone who sees who can answer this. How untidy does a house have to be for an other wise loving and good parent to have child protection proceedings?

My mum has just reported me to social services for being too untidy. She is happy to state I'm a good mum, I am caring, I give my children lots of opportunities etc but she thinks I'm too untidy.

In the last 6 months I have had visits from different professionals (not for child protection) at least once a month and none have expressed concern, in fact when she put the complaint in I was still under a family support team and the case closed (they were looking to see if they could find a way to help me with school runs as one of my children has mobility problems as do I). The social worker asked the worker about it and she said she had no concerns, Mum's response (she had this call whilst I was with her) was "I'd like to see what her house looks like then!" well she may need to look at the houses of 7 different people who have visited me in that case!

I admit I'm not the tidiest person, but I don't think it's that bad (certainly in a previous relationship and whilst I was childless it was a lot worse and has got steadily better since I had children) it's not so bad that we can't vac 2-3 times a week (as I said, I have mobility issues and pulling a vac around isn't easy for me or it'd get done more often) there's nothing about that's dangerous to the children.

Mum is a child protection social worker and it feels like she's asking her friends to tell me to tidy my room (she did that when I was a teenager!) my previous HV said that she kept trying to get her to make a referral about me but she had told her that it wasn't that bad (it was worse than it is now when she last came here) she told me that Mum isn't taking her work hat off and whilst she might make an issue of a house that looks like mine she can't see that it would be as part of something else and that on it's own she (HV) wouldn't refer it.

I have a social worker making a visit on Monday which will be the first time we've met him. Half of me is convinced he'll say that it's nothing to worry about but I'm also worried because I'm not sure Mum will let them drop it so easily.

[EdMcDunnough]

'but I'm certainly not a liar or in denial, according to this thread it's my mum that's the honest one and me the liar. I've often stated that threads on MN go that way, OP = liar, person they talk about is honest.'

From what I have been reading on this thread the vast majority are highly uncomfortable or suspicious of your mother, and support you in your concerns.

I don't think anyone's suggested you might be lying? I certainly don't think so.

[charlottehere]

I give up! OP my posts have been nothing but supportive of you and I feel a bit attcked by your respose. i'm out.

[charlottehere]

Agree with ed

[EdMcDunnough]

I'm not out though

I really want to help. I wish I knew how.

[charlottehere]

The cleaning part prehaps not.....although I don't clean every inch of my house weekly, then again I'm lazy pregnant and slow. The meal plan, star chart etc all screams do it to show what a great parent you are which I didnt think op needed to try and prove.

[EdMcDunnough]

I never do any of that. Our house is proper messy. But it's still quite nice. And we have no cockroaches either, thankfully - slugs, yes, at night. Not much you can do about that if they come out from under the carpet!! (think there may be some enormous gaps in the floorboards)

It can be a lot worse than yours, OP, and still not a threat to children's health - that's what I'm trying to say.

And I've not had my children taken away yet, in the 9 years since I graduated from untidy childless person to untidy mother.

[LurcioLovesFrankie]

Out of interest, how old are your two oldest? You mention them doing their own washing and shoo-ing you away because you "can't sort washing". This is probably fair enough if they're teenagers, but if they're younger, it will contribute to an overall picture of a mother who just isn't coping - effectively they're stepping in to parent you rather than the other way round, because you can't manage, and this will worry SS.

Agree with above - bin bags, one cupboard at a time, junk as much as you can. Make sure you have beds made up. Scrub the kitchen top to bottom - all surfaces, inside of fridge (switch fridge off, defrost, pull away from wall, clean behind and underneath), then get landlord/environmental health in to deal with the cockroaches.

[CallMeBetty]

Sorry if my response seemed ott, it's just what I would do in this situation all the stuff on the list seems pretty normal to me, seems the OP has things under control anyway in that department. Great to hear that ss have no concerns, did they say what the next steps are?

I hope you can salvage something of your relationship with your mother but it sounds like you need a lot of distance and she needs a healthy dose of perspective here. That's something I can certainly relate to and I wish you luck with it.

[HowMessy]

Charlotte, I wasn't attacking you, honest.

EdMcDunnough, I was responding to:

^EleanorHandbasket Mon 10-Sep-12 08:26:09
That what the OP says. In much the same vein as I say I'm not on MN all the time or that I only smoke socially. Denial is very powerful.^

And also the fact that despite saying I don't have an infestation I keep being told I do, even the SW couldn't find any today.

I have got some pictures, I don't even have a profile on my normal account and I've been here for quite a few years, I'll add them up when I've had my dinner.

[clam]

Lots of people live in mess , but this would not trigger concern by SS ordinarily. So, there must be other issues at play here - you and one child have disabilities for one thing, and your mother clearly has concerns - who knows what her agenda is? Seems odd, certainly, but she must have her reasons, unless she is simply toxic.

I hope you can manage to sort this all out. I think the vast majority of people on here have tried to be as supportive and helpful in a practical way as they can. (If anyone's interested, I've just been round with a black binbag!)

[charlottehere]

Fair enough how most of us are on your side.

[EdMcDunnough]

Yes I see what you mean now OP. Sorry. I wasn't reading too carefully so missed those things.

I am glad you haven't got a massive problem with the bugs, but has anyone from the building actually contacted the council to try and get the source of it sorted?

Sorry, it is something that would really bother ME, but if it doesn't bother you then don't let me influence you. I am scared of creepy crawlies and wouldn't feel safe with them living anywhere near me. Plus it makes me angry that no one has got onto it iyswim - no one should have to live in proximity to these creatures.

[EdMcDunnough]

And I really wqouldn't feel comfortable looking at pictures of your house. That's private stuff - and it's not necessary. You've already got the all clear from SS so why do you need us to see it?

[HowMessy]

My eldest is 6, who is the one who gets hands in. I don't allow them to do jobs on their own, even when I'm being told to go away. We all sit on the kitchen floor and sort washing together, I just get told off a lot because "That's not a light, Mummy! That's medium!" usually I let it go because they like to help and want to be involved. If I didn't get them involved in it I wouldn't be able to leave DC2.

Next step is just talking to everyone and making sure they're all happy. He has no concerns with them being here and said that he won't get involved with the decision of where they go because we've sorted it between ourselves. We told him we're not happy for it to continue and want them back as quickly as possible which he is happy for.

[boredandrestless]

So do you now have your kids back with you?

Do put in a complaint about your mother when this is sorted, it's a huge abuse of her professional power.

[HowMessy]

Thanks, EdMcDunnough. I've been asked a few times to post some which is the only reason why I'm doing it and maybe it will help people to understand what I'm actually up against.

I've had it with ants in a top floor flat with the HA and they said it was me, they were skipping all the other flats and coming straight to mine so it wasn't their responsibility, I don't trust them not to say the same again TBH. I've managed to get them from the main part of the house, I only see them now braving coming out of the access and dying quickly as they go through where I've sprayed if it stays like this I'll leave it as it is, it's kept them out for quite awhile now.

clam, she seems to have a thing about tidy. My brother and SIL get away with a lot because they're tidy.

[HowMessy]

You accused me of being in denial. I guess I must be playing more than a couple of times a month when we have a houseful and not realising it. TBH I get bored of the game quickly and only have an account to play with the guys when they come over (otherwise they complain I put things like Eastenders and ANTM on one of them got me a 6 month subs because OH didn't and they couldn't cope anymore)

[TheJiminyConjecture]

I was hoping that the other set of GPs would be a bit of support in all this but it doesn't sound like it.

Good news that the SW was positive. Just the horrible situation with your mum to deal with now. Wishing you all the best with that. Very difficult.

Oh and I don't want to tread on anyone elses toes or speak for them but I think the problem is that 'mess' is so subjective. What I class as lovely, liveable or hovel, will not be the same as someone else. So it's very difficult to advise without knowing specifics.

[AndiMac]

From the sounds of it, HowMessy is far tidier than I am. She has described her cleaning routine in good detail and it sure the heck is more than I do. She just has an obsessive mother who can't let go of it.

If the social worker doesn't have a problem with your flat or lifestyle, it's your mother who has and is the problem. You have to deal with her, not worry about your flat.

[TheCrackFox]

Your mother is not your friend. She seems to have an agenda but you can't let her have this sort of power over you again.

What does your DH have to say about all this. Does he like your mum?

If your children are still with your mother get in a taxi right now and bring them home.

[HoopDePoop]

Do you have your children back with you???

I feel every sympathy for you - but why are we talking about housework so much when your children have been removed from your care, surely a bigger issue non?

[fuzzpig]

Another one here really creeped out by your mother's actions :(

Glad the SW saw sense, I hope your mum leaves it well alone now, but I'm not betting she will.

[Jenzopos]

Im the guild GM..and none in the guild is an obsessive player...we all have real lives and kids so wow takes a back seat for us all...howmessy is one of the occasional visitors as she's busy enough in rl and wow is an occasional treat!

I got accused of having a messy house when my daughter ate tea tree oil....i thought it was out of her reach...she got it and got the lid off. ambulance staff talked behind my back to doctors so i had to endure a load of child protection questions.....it was cluttered but it had been tidy a few hours before this....having a tidy house with toddlers is like shovelling snow when its still snowing....