How Untidy Do You Have To Be?

[HowMessy]

Not sure if this is the right place, hopefully there will be someone who sees who can answer this. How untidy does a house have to be for an other wise loving and good parent to have child protection proceedings?

My mum has just reported me to social services for being too untidy. She is happy to state I'm a good mum, I am caring, I give my children lots of opportunities etc but she thinks I'm too untidy.

In the last 6 months I have had visits from different professionals (not for child protection) at least once a month and none have expressed concern, in fact when she put the complaint in I was still under a family support team and the case closed (they were looking to see if they could find a way to help me with school runs as one of my children has mobility problems as do I). The social worker asked the worker about it and she said she had no concerns, Mum's response (she had this call whilst I was with her) was "I'd like to see what her house looks like then!" well she may need to look at the houses of 7 different people who have visited me in that case!

I admit I'm not the tidiest person, but I don't think it's that bad (certainly in a previous relationship and whilst I was childless it was a lot worse and has got steadily better since I had children) it's not so bad that we can't vac 2-3 times a week (as I said, I have mobility issues and pulling a vac around isn't easy for me or it'd get done more often) there's nothing about that's dangerous to the children.

Mum is a child protection social worker and it feels like she's asking her friends to tell me to tidy my room (she did that when I was a teenager!) my previous HV said that she kept trying to get her to make a referral about me but she had told her that it wasn't that bad (it was worse than it is now when she last came here) she told me that Mum isn't taking her work hat off and whilst she might make an issue of a house that looks like mine she can't see that it would be as part of something else and that on it's own she (HV) wouldn't refer it.

I have a social worker making a visit on Monday which will be the first time we've met him. Half of me is convinced he'll say that it's nothing to worry about but I'm also worried because I'm not sure Mum will let them drop it so easily.

[RedHelenB]

My son knows how to flush the toilet but often ^forgets". Your partner sees them every 12 days, nails don't grow that long in that time so it sounds as though he's not looking after them either if he's concerned the first thing to do is to ask his ex how he caneeds help, he's their parent too..

[badgerhead]

You really need to start a new thread, but in answer to your question I would be referring to social services as it sounds like neglect. But you do need to be careful because as you say it may be the mum trying to get at your partner. However, the fact that the children do not know to flush the toilet and don't appear able to wash themselves does sound alarming.

[dencatko69]

Hi All, I have a question for u and would like to hear everyone's opinion. My partner has two girls, 5yrs and 7 yrs and they stay with us every second weekend. Their mum is very very dirty, messy person, that to be honest I have never ever seen anything as bad as she is in my life. Anyway, every time the kids come around, they are always, dirty, scruffy, dressed in clothes like proper tramps. They have dirty long nails and sometimes even my own boy tells me they stink. You can obviously see their mother doesn't care about them at all and she doesn't even go to work as she has enough money from previous partner that provided her a house, a car for free, plus pays her loads of money for the kids and she even claims most of the benefits. These two poor young children have no clue about basic hygiene, they don't flush toilets, their room is disgusting, I don't even go there, every time they come around, they have really dirty or REALLY worn out clothes (I reckon she might do it on purpose) to annoy my partner or have holes in their tights or they look like they haven't been bathed. It is really not fair on them, so would it be something what would need to be reported to SS or they wouldn't really see it as a concern. My opinion is, if u don't teach ur children now, it will only get worse... What do u all think??

[bubbles1231]

HowMessy, this sound like a control thing.
Your mum is trying to control your life. The problem is with her, not with you. She sound like she has some major problems.
Believe in yourself, that you are a good mum, and that you are doing the best for your children. Take control of you life, and be gentle but firm with your mum. She may be the easy option for childcare when things are hectic but sometimes you've got to tough it out and manage. It will make you stronger in the long run.
Don't be bullied!

[CremeEggThief]

Bintang, I wondered that as well, actually. Still a nasty thing for the OP's mother to do, although I suppose we will never know her motivations.

[Bintang]

i am wondering if maybe she just got a friend/colleague to come round to you? Is that possible, as a 'warning shot'?? Clutching at straws, because if you were my child, id be round vaccing, and laundering, not calling SS!

[charlottehere]

I'm so glad you have them back. I really think you need to consider cutting you m out of your life, you can do this with out her, honest! She is toxic - sorry.

[CremeEggThief]

I am really pleased that the children are home :).

But I still think you need to assert yourself much more with your mother and not give her the opportunity to control you, even if it means not relying on your family as much for help. I'm not saying to cut contact completely, as that would be very drastic indeed, but step back a bit from them.

I wish you, your DH and DC all the best.

[perfectstorm]

How do the rest of the family regard what she's done to you?

[Bintang]

How did your mum take the news of your pg? Do you think that has triggered this perhaps?

[HowMessy]

Thank you MaBumble. That's what I was worried about, whilst everyone was being "nice" going and doing something that could put backs up may not have gone well.

Mum can be, I've certainly met a new Mum in the last 18 months, particularly the last month!

We are quite a close family so it's another reason I've needed to keep her on side. It would be wrong for the children to cut them out totally and I get a lot of help from them. At the moment Dad is doing the opposite school run to me, meeting me first so he can take the baby with him then meeting me in the middle. I'm meeting Mum at a shop so I can buy some stuff with my DN to do some art on Saturday then DN and DC1 are going to do some stuff together in the afternoon and she'll probably swap with one of mine. We're going out with my brother and his family and my sister and BIL and probably some others on Sunday. I'll need them to babysit one day next week whilst we go to antenatal class, then one day DC1 will be there with DN to go to their club. It's fairly typical stuff for us to see a lot of each other, swap children around etc. Without moving out of our city it would be massive changes to totally cut them out and would affect the children.

[MaBumble]

Been lurking HowMessy and as a mum, WoW player, cleanbutnotneat&tidy house keeper and someone who also does not like losing it I understand totally where you are coming from. I also understand the need to bide your time. If it had escalated with your Mum/SW it might have got really nasty.

You don't have to prove anything to anyone.

There are obviously issues with your Mum though - she sounds a bit of a control freak at best!

[HowMessy]

I have found this very hard because I don't normally ask for help from anyone. I have found it hard to have Mum and SW involved like this in my life because it's not what I'm used to.

I'm the sort of person who either stays calm or loses it and since having children I choose to stay calm. It doesn't mean I don't tell people what I feel, it doesn't mean I let the SW think I'm happy with things. Whilst my husband wants to rant and rave to me, I don't see the benefit of it and it makes me stressed. Directing my feelings rather than making a show of them is, in my mind, more beneficial, getting overly emotional on MN isn't beneficial either. Obviously I do care about my children and I have shown people I am not happy to leave them because I got them back! I've been putting the washing machine through two 1/4 loads a day to keep them in uniform. I chose not to take them back. I know me and I know her, I wouldn't have done it through arguing with her, I had to bide my time and play it. I've been building up the clothes supply when they come here until I was in a position to be able to not send them back.

[TheCrackFox]

Glad you have your children back.

You need to keep your mum at an arm's length distance from your family. She sounds positively cruel.

[AndiMac]

Glad to read you have your kids back. I've kept up with the whole thread and very few people thought you had housekeeping issues and even fewer thought you had WOW issues. Don't just read those, as most people did and do want to support you.

[perfectstorm]

That's brilliant, HowMessy. I am so, so glad for you and them.

I think people have just been concerned, because if you'd not got them home she might establish a status quo. Good luck with everything and I hope your mother backs off and stops steamrollering you - have you mentioned to SS that that is undermining your parenting? Perhaps they can help in some way.

All the best.

[HowMessy]

My children are home. I don't think I'm going to come back to this thread, I don't have the energy to deal with everything I've said being called dishonest even after I've proven I'm not. I asked one question, I've proven to you despite not needing to that I wasn't lying in my OP nor am I blind and I proved myself to the SW. I even proved that I'm not in denial about how often I play World of Warcraft (by the way, I've lost my dongle so not played in over a week although I may be in denial and not realising it's in my pocket and I'm logging in more than I realise) having to embarrass myself by revealing details I would rather not have to a friend.

[minibmw2010]

I genuinely dont understand why your kids are not at your house .. You sound like you aren't even bothered by it, bizarre.

[lisad123]

ok, having workd many years for ss, i can tell you that your house is fine, trust me i have seen many houses and yours is fine.
Get a taxi, tell your mum that all clothes need to be bagged up and go and get your kids.
Your mum sounds awful and has no right to keep your kids, but by you leaving them there you are suggesting to her and the SW that your happy with that arrangement. I wouldnt be surprised if they turn up with a section 20 agreement for them to live with your mum if you dont get your arse in gear.

GO AND GET YOUR KIDS!!!

[charlottehere]

you still havent got them back?

[perfectstorm]

OP you really, really need decent legal advice. You are probably entitled to public funding (legal aid), as the threshold is I believe an income of around 19k and I think (?) there may be allowances for dependants, but either way, you need to talk to someone, even if just a one-off appointment. Whether there are legitimate concerns or not, your position is a worrying one. You need representation IMO, and fast. If you don't feel capable of calling SS and finding out what the hell is happening then get a solicitor who will.

[sicutlilium]

More to this one than meets the eye.

[perfectstorm]

You call the taxi company and say you need a people carrier. I've done it several times when a group of us have gone for a meal. They take about 8 people with ease.

If you don't get a lawyer soon you will lose your children to your mother. The passivity about getting them back is not going to go down well. Please, please go and see a decent family specialist asap. If my mother took my kid I would be apoplectic. There would be police involvement if I had my way, and if that got me nowhere (SS involvement) I would want an emergency hearing before a judge to have my residency as his mother confirmed and my mother ordered to return them. After which she would need her own court order to have any but indirect contact with him, ever again. Yet you are doing nothing? Do you want to lose them - or do you think it might be a more manageable arrangement to share residence? I honestly can't fathom this.

[LemonBreeland]

Blame exactly. That would take priority over everything else. The OP is talking the talk about how much she wants her DCs back, but she is not actually doing anything constructive about it.

Feel like my head is going to explode with my inability to understand this behaviour

[wordfactory]

OP do you actually want your DC to come home?

Because there is nothing to stop you and the excuses you have given are pretty weak.

Do you perhaps think it's the best thing that your DC stay with your parents at the moment?