How Untidy Do You Have To Be?

[HowMessy]

Not sure if this is the right place, hopefully there will be someone who sees who can answer this. How untidy does a house have to be for an other wise loving and good parent to have child protection proceedings?

My mum has just reported me to social services for being too untidy. She is happy to state I'm a good mum, I am caring, I give my children lots of opportunities etc but she thinks I'm too untidy.

In the last 6 months I have had visits from different professionals (not for child protection) at least once a month and none have expressed concern, in fact when she put the complaint in I was still under a family support team and the case closed (they were looking to see if they could find a way to help me with school runs as one of my children has mobility problems as do I). The social worker asked the worker about it and she said she had no concerns, Mum's response (she had this call whilst I was with her) was "I'd like to see what her house looks like then!" well she may need to look at the houses of 7 different people who have visited me in that case!

I admit I'm not the tidiest person, but I don't think it's that bad (certainly in a previous relationship and whilst I was childless it was a lot worse and has got steadily better since I had children) it's not so bad that we can't vac 2-3 times a week (as I said, I have mobility issues and pulling a vac around isn't easy for me or it'd get done more often) there's nothing about that's dangerous to the children.

Mum is a child protection social worker and it feels like she's asking her friends to tell me to tidy my room (she did that when I was a teenager!) my previous HV said that she kept trying to get her to make a referral about me but she had told her that it wasn't that bad (it was worse than it is now when she last came here) she told me that Mum isn't taking her work hat off and whilst she might make an issue of a house that looks like mine she can't see that it would be as part of something else and that on it's own she (HV) wouldn't refer it.

I have a social worker making a visit on Monday which will be the first time we've met him. Half of me is convinced he'll say that it's nothing to worry about but I'm also worried because I'm not sure Mum will let them drop it so easily.

Why were you washing everything at once? There was no clean clothes in drawers or wardrobes?

Sorry, posted too soon, on phone.

I suggest a sainsburys, or Tesco or primark run is in order! Why won't she give them back? Is she ok in herself? Seems a very odd thing to do. Also, giving you 'access' when she had them? Is she going to say you handed them over to her, hence the clothes, and setting precedents for access? If my mum wouldn't hand over my kids I would have called the police, not left them there!

I wasn't washing everything at once, I'd just taken the weeks washing upstairs, Mum took everything that was waiting to be put away (not a job for when the younger children are awake!) as well as what was in the drawers and wardrobes.

How odd. What did she say while she was doing this as it is more than one trip to and fro to the car? What did you say back?

The plan was to keep them whilst their dad was away because their sleep was unsettled and I'm pregnant so I was really struggling to function - they normally cope better with grandparents than here when he's away because he's not supposed to be there, IYSWIM. He got back yesterday and we went over to see the youngest, the other two were at their other grandparent's house. Both sets of grandparents dropped them back today but as we had nothing we had to take them back. It can't go on longer than tomorrow because I can't believe the SW is going to allow it, we did consider popping up to Tesco for a set of clothes for each of them but decided to wait until tomorrow. I don't drive which made it harder to be on my own, especially when the eldest went back to school and DC2 struggles with the walk.

Sorry to go on about the washing, BTW!! It just strikes me as such a wierd thing to do!

Just said she was going to wash and iron it all and sort it out to make it easier to put away.

So they have gone back again tonight and are not home? :(

Also, why did you decide to wait an voluntarily give them back to a woman who had previously decided they couldn't come back? And if she had decided that why did she drop them back and why not bring their clothes?

Right now this is starting to look 'chaotic' which will ring warning bells for sw.

By allowing your DM to take all their clothes it looks like you consented to her keeping them permanently!

You have to get these clothes back or replace them BEFORE the sw get to your house.

And the beds ABSOLUTELY MUST be made up.

Jeez you really shouldnt have to be told this stuff.

I'm also not sure I understand your situation- you are pregnant- where is this DC's father?

Do the other DCs see their father?

How much time do your DC normally spend with your DM? Is she wanting custody? Has this situation arised because of your pregnancy?

You say you have mobility problems- is this why you have had 7 professionals at your house? Who were they all? Do you realise that having all this multi agency involvement raises more red flags?

If you or the DCs are disabled you should be getting support but this doesnt mean they may not still be removed if they aren't being properly cared for.

I can't imagine why you had to take the DCs back to your Mum just because she had all their clothes.

Why couldn't one of you just go round and get the clothes back?

I don't mean to sound harsh. It sounds like a nightmare but it does seem she is far to controlling of all these aspects of your life.

I said that I had stripped the beds and washed them, I said nothing about not remaking them. I stripped them, like I did mine because it's the weekend and like mine they were remade so jeeze, no I don't need telling this stuff! I also put their books straight, vacuumed their room and did their cushions/ teddies nicely like I do every time I change their beds.

My children, amazingly, have one father including the unborn one. He, as I explained, has been out of the country for a few weeks (two lots of ten days with a long weekend in between as compensation) with work and got back yesterday. Not a common part of his job but he has a good reputation so when someone was needed to cover someone's holiday for a couple of weeks they asked him to do it. He usually puts them to bed, makes sure their radio is tuned to Classic FM (hang over from their baby days and sleeping in the car) and they have the right teddy, he cuddles them back to sleep in the night if they wake, brings them down for breakfast if they wake early... you know, the normal contact children have with their father - so probably why they were unsettled in the night the last few weeks.

We've not had multiple agencies involved, I said 7 people, not 7 agencies. We've had one. The school were trying to help with transport because two of us find the walk difficult and there are no direct or indirect bus routes. Because of a maternity leave part way through them trying to help us there was a change of worker, each worker has brought different people with them. DC2's new nursery teacher and key worker did the standard home visit. There's been nothing negative about any of the visits, so I'm not sure where all these concerning visits have come from.

When Mum took the clothes she said she was going to wash, iron and sort them all. At that point I had no reason to think she's not going to bring them back when their dad came home. I didn't find out until later in the week that she didn't think they should come home and the same day the SW rang whilst I was with her which is how I found out she'd made a referral. She told him in front of me that she had taken all the clothes to wash and iron, so he already knows that.

I don't drive (in case I've not been clear enough about that either) so I had no way of getting to them to get the children or their clothes back, as they took everything we own from NB to big enough for our eldest it's not just a case of walking in there and taking it either. We discussed whilst he was still away buying clothes so that we could keep them tonight, but we don't believe that the SW will allow them to keep them and we want to play nicely until tomorrow when we'll let him know everything we know.

We normally have a lot to do with my parents, my dad works close to here and when he's in work he drives past to take us the rest of the way home after work and when he's not working he sometimes does the school run for me to save DC2 the journey, we try to limit it to once a day if we can help it. They sometimes have the eldest for a week if his shift pattern falls right so that he can do the school runs.

Look - your mother is trying to create a situation where she has the children. You need to be very clear with your social worker that she even took clean clothes out of drawers to re-wash. Because clean clothes are a sign you're taking care of your children and she's deliberately taken that positive indicator away from you - ie the clothes will be clean, but it won't be down to you.

Can you call in professional help to deal with the cockroaches? That way there will be proof you're dealing with them - not just a tin of Raid.

I think you need to get tough with your mother and tell her you want the children, and their clothes, back NOW. Bugger being nice - she's trying to take your children for heavens sake! What does your DH say?

I accept you don't have a car but could you get a taxi?

Why have you not contacted police to say she has taken your children?

There are a few things just not adding up about this to be honest.

If your husband is home, tell him to go and get your children.

The only thing that rings alarm bells for me is the deviousness of your mother and her abuse of her position.

Her taking all the clothes is VERY SERIOUS - you have done nothing wrong but she has engineered a situation where she can say you either have no clothes for them or they were so disgusting she had to take them and wash them - and that you have let her.

I don't understand why you didn't go back to your parents house to collect clothes rather than willingly drop your dc back there.

You really shouldn't trust your parents.

You need to get your children back from your mum, now.

It really does sound like she's trying to take them off you.

Please make sure you tell the SW about her taking all the clothes out of the cupboards.

Hang on - she's specifically said she isn't an obsessive gamer - that she's a member of a World of Warcraft guild where it's understood people have lives and can't be on it all of the time. WoW pisses me off to be honest but that seems reasonable.

I do agree though - put up some pictures of the living room / bedrooms. Better to know now if there's a problem than after you've been assessed.

Also - I think total deregistration from WoW / letting your avatars go would be a good idea. Yes, it's not fair - but this is serious and calls for drastic action.

I take your point

OK, one of my siblings had some MH issues after a very bad birth. The housework etc totally ran away with them to the point where the house stank, had mice and we were all worried.

We took my sibling and baby away for the weekend to give her a rest and other members of the family put the house back into pristine condition-

this is what families do in such situations...

I can't help think reading this that your mum is not really your friend and that she has a very frightening agenda here.

Do you have other friends/family you can ask to come round and help you as a one off?

i'm not sure how bad the house is from what you say, but if SW are coming to investigate allegations I would think it wise to have it shining like a palace before they arrive.

Secondly, when I lived in a nasty rented flat as a student we were on the fifth floor and had cockroaches. We tried everything to get rid of them. Including all the sprays etc. It never worked becuase we were constantly being reinfected from other flats. The only thing that worked was when the landlord was forced to get rentokil in and do the whole block. If you are renting in a block this is the responsbility of the freeholder.

Good luck, it must be very hard to be going through this when PG as well.