To be cross that dh expects me to pay for exactly half of household expenses when he earns twice what I do?

[theredsalamander]

Our finances are very separate. This worked fine when we were just a couple who both worked full time but now we are married with two children and I work part time to spend more time with the children I think it should change.

We've just run out of oil, (heating) and it will cost £1100 for a top up. Normal joint account balance never has enough cash for such a big payment in one go (over a year, monthly payment accumulating enough maybe). I have no savings, have very little spare cash (eg I rarely go out as I can't afford drinks/taxis/new outfit etc) but he has lots. It would take him three days work to earn enough to pay for the oil, he has enough in his account to pay for it already anyway.

His exact words "Oil is a house cost that we budgeted for and not an addition which I am happy to pay for"

Now I am rubbish with money, I will absolutely own up to that, in fact one of the reasons I am so skint is that I am trying hard to pay off a loan. Without the monthly loan payment I would be much more comfortable and would be able to contribute more to family outings trips etc- he pays for all "extra curricular" activities holidays/outings/meals out/etc, but I can't pay half of the oil cost. I do not want to "owe" him the money I want him to pay it so I am not in debt to my husband as well as the sodding bank.

AIBU? Or because I am rubbish with money is he right in not financing my obligations whilst I am paying the loan back?

I am posting this at work and wont be able to log in for a few hours but hopefully you will be able to give me some perspective on my return!

Thanks in advance.

and please stop blaming yourself for his reaction! It is not that YOU have handled things badly, it is him that has reacted badly. You are not responsible for his unreasonable behaviour.

and can you see where the control issues come in, with him wanting to keep all the family outings etc in his gift? That way he gets to decide what you all do and what you spend money on because it is him who is paying. Most couples have a joint account to cover spending on the kids and family things (whether or not they also have separate accounts for personal money) because that way both members of the couple have access to it.

this isn't just about who puts in how much, it's also about who has control over where the money goes.

I am wondering though whether I have misrepresented him on this (and other) threads. Because the isolated incidents don't sound nice but what if I am just misconstruing situations, over reacting and being totally random in my behaviour?

Sybil you sound so level headed and reasonable. But this is also how dh is- ok he might be cross in he heat if the m

Oops trigger finger!

Just saying that dhs arguments are all quite reasonable and if I can see the logic in what he is saying, then it would follow that he has a point?

well, if you were misconstruing, and he was a reasonable person, he would be saying 'I think you are misconstruing things but clearly you are not happy with the way the money is working, let's talk about it' and come up with something you both felt was fair.

Not throwing a hissy fit and threatening to stop paying for family outings ffs.

I think MNers are very good at reading between the lines of posts and considering how things might look from the other side - we all know that we are only getting one side of things and I think most posters mentally turn things over in their mind to see it from another angle and if they thought you might not be being fair, would have said so and would be asking you questions to explore that. But a hundred or so people have posted on this thread in support of you. This is because there are various hard facts that you can't get away from. For instance, the fact that despite you being married he has savings while you can't afford to go out. And stuff he has said, which you have quoted.
The way money is managed in your household is quite unusual, to put it bluntly, and you are entitled to not be happy with it.

My DH has always willingly given me money when he has earned a lot more than me, because I am his wife and he wants me to have nice things. Same for DS. If your husband is witholding things from his wife and children because he has the money to pay for them but just doesn't want to, then I'm afraid that just sounds as though he doesn't think much of any of you. If you love someone you want to share your good fortune with them, not keep it to yourself. IMO he is mean and unfair to you and the kids. Don't imagine all men are like this and it's somehow OK. Quite a few are but my DH is not and any decent man is not.

UPT- I am just trying to find my bearings. Our relationship sort of exists in a vacuum, in that I don't really talk about the difficult to describe stuff with anyone because it's such a hard thing to explain. I end up feeling a bit petty and unreasonable sharing with friends my woes if I can't even articulate them properly. So it's really hard to have any sort of compass as to whether I am blowing things out if proportion or not.

Didn't mean to sound harsh above but really, you should not blame yourself and you are not the unreasonable one here. He should be ashamed to treat his wife and kids like this. Take a deep breath and start thinking longer term. I would try and find someone to talk to about this IRL - perhaps from suggestions made earlier in the thread if talking to friends/family is difficult.

'if I can see the logic in what he is saying, then it would follow that he has a point?'

no, it means he's good at arguing.
I have a friend who wanted to be a nun when she was a teenager and was a very serious Christian at university and for this reason was determined not to sleep with anyone before marriage. She started going out with this boy who was very clever and did Philosophy and he argued her into going to bed with him, even though she didn't want to, because she couldn't come up with any counter-arguments . She knew underneath that it wasn't the right thing for her and it was really his self-interest, but she thought she had to do it because his arguments seemed logical to her.
Hope the anecdote doesn't seem too random, do you see what I'm getting at? Just because you can't think of an argument against him there and then doesn't mean he's right.

I do recognise though that so far not one person has said "hang on a minute he could have a point"

Its just that if he really is as (unwittingly I think and hope) controlling as folks are suggesting, in order for this to change my life and my children's lives are about to get turned upside down and I dont know if I have the gumption to be the person to wreak havoc on such small precious little souls :(

it must be really hard.
but equally, whatever stuff he is pulling on you, he will be doing to them as well when they're bigger, so best to get things back on track sooner rather than later.

sorry, I know it's really easy for me to say.

I have to go to bed now (early morning tomorrow), hope you keep posting over the weekend to let us know how you are getting on x

I've not read the whole thread so apologies but from the basic first post I am shocked. I am the main beadwinner in my household however I couldn't be that without my amazing DH who does the lions share of the childcare. In our house there is no "my" money - all the money goes into a central pot from which all the essentials are paid. What's left (not much currently!) we share, deciding together what to buy and being adult about which nights out we each can/can't afford depending on cost, importance (ie a best friends birthday. We have never argued about money and I am really shocked by your DH's controlling attitude toawrds finances. I am te breadwinner and couldn't imagine behaving or even THINKING like that!

You would be much better off divorced.

The way your family life is set up, HE is able to line his pockets monthly through your "domestic" contributions.

Will you consider going back to working full time? You would be much better of either working full time, or divorced. (I know which option I would chose, but it is not my relationship to bear)

If you go to work full time, you need to both contribute MORE monthly to pay for childcare, cleaner etc.
Then you can tell him:

"John, now that I am returning to work full time, we will have higher childcare costs. We will also need a cleaner. This will cost X, so we must both equally add 1/2 X to our contributions to pay for this. Additionally, we need to share the remaining housework and cooking equally between us. Unless you think we should also pay for a housekeeper who cooks for us too. What do you think?"

And take it from there.

If there is a question of working full time and earning enough to not stress, or your marriage (if you think it worth saving) I think there is no question that full time work is the preferred option.

Thanks Sybil. Sleep tight!

Quint working full time at present isn't an oPtion I don't think. Ds1 is 6, ds2 is 3 and whilst they are happy at after school club/nursery on the days they are there until 6 it's a long day for them both and doesn't really feel right for our family.

Dh has decamped to the spare room- not likely to see him until Sunday as he is going mountain walking early tomorrow and camping over with some friends, I could do with the space tbh to try and get my head a bit clearer.

If this was "unwitting" he would not be

1 refusing to discuss it in a way that belittles you ( this is a massive red flag all on its own)

2 using sophistry to make reasonable-sounding arguments for why the finances must always be organised in his favour and making you doubt reason that you think the blatantly unfair is blatantly unfair.

BTW this is a "talent" I share with him (being able to argue that black is white in an entirely logical-sounding way). If you are an unscrupulous arsehole, it is very easy to use this ability to get your own way in an argument where you are in the wrong. This is particularly the case where your "opponent" is playing fair and eager to resolve the argument without nastiness.

Oh, and BTW, he knows he is doing it.

3 he is prepared for your children to miss out (on the stuff he so kindly deigns to pay for) to punish you for raising this.

Look at how that works for a minute - he keeps all the money, he buys you all stuff as and when he chooses, if you complain he withholds money from you all*.

It's open and shut controlling behaviour - it's punitive, manipulative, and calculated to put you in the position of supplicant.

Please do one thing as a result of this thread, if you do nothing else: find at least one person in real life that you talk to about this.

He is gaslighting you. He has convinced you that you can't trust your own mind and made you unable to stick up for yourself. A friend (preferably one who is good at parsing arguments) will help you see how he is messing with your head.

Finally - does he normally spend the weekend at multiple fun pursuits while you are left with the children? He really sounds like a shite husband, even if he wasn't a manipulative, exploitative bastard (which he is).

So you did have a proportionate split of contributions when he was the one earning less, but now it's the other way round suddenly that isn't the right way to do it any more? No reason except he doesn't want to?

There's no logic in that at all. And as for threatening to stop paying for the children's activities and fun things to punish you for being 'grabby' (i.e. trying to have a discussion about the family finances)? He should be absolutely ashamed of himself. What kind of father behaves like that? Greedy, selfish, nasty bully.

You are married? Did he vow 'all my worldly goods I share with you?' or similar? It's a marriage vow as much as being sexually faithful or sticking together when times are tough.

I am shocked

I'm not even married but I am a family unit with DP

our earnings go into one big pot from which we pay for everything - joint, kids, sole stuff

Your partner has not accepted he is part of a family unit

So

Cleaner = £10 an hour
Nanny = £15 an hour
Cook = £30 an hour
Washing & Ironing = £10 an hour

Every hour he is out of the house not doing childcare and domestic duties and you are he needs to put £20 into the joint pot

"I am wondering though whether I have misrepresented him on this (and other) threads. Because the isolated incidents don't sound nice but what if I am just misconstruing situations, over reacting and being totally random in my behaviour?"

I linked to your other threads (see my post of 20.21) precisely because you are describing things - both to yourself and to us in isolation - but when it's put together as a bigger picture of your relationship it's pretty clear that his behaviour is unacceptable on a number of fronts - not just money, but also blanking you, not helping you (golf club argument), failing to discuss things with you or understand you emotionally, even to him being an arse to you when he is hungry rather than acting like an adult and seeing to his own dietary needs / identifying his own moods and reactions as being unreasonable.

He has you doubting yourself and your reactions to him - thinking how he's acting is normal, and how you're responding is not. When it is the other way round. Decent men, decent fathers, don't act like this.

IT IS NOT UNWITTING.
He is doing this on purpose.
I'm sorry, really I am, as it must be so hard to have to face up to being treated like that by someone you love.
It would be havoc at first if you can't sort it out and you end up divorcing him. But in the long run it is better for your children than staying in an abusive relationship. You will be happier in the long run too. Having an unhappy parent is never a good thing for a child, nor is witnessing such a dreadful example of how a woman should be treated by a man.

"Our relationship sort of exists in a vacuum, in that I don't really talk about the difficult to describe stuff with anyone because it's such a hard thing to explain. I end up feeling a bit petty and unreasonable sharing with friends my woes if I can't even articulate them properly. So it's really hard to have any sort of compass as to whether I am blowing things out if proportion or not."

OP, I bet if you spoke to a friend who sees you and your H together about your concerns you would find that they had already noticed his behaviour towards you and didn't think much of it.

the thing is with the children, the hissy fit where he threatened to stop paying for days out shows that he is prepared to punish the children in order to punish their mum.