To be cross that dh expects me to pay for exactly half of household expenses when he earns twice what I do?

[theredsalamander]

Our finances are very separate. This worked fine when we were just a couple who both worked full time but now we are married with two children and I work part time to spend more time with the children I think it should change.

We've just run out of oil, (heating) and it will cost £1100 for a top up. Normal joint account balance never has enough cash for such a big payment in one go (over a year, monthly payment accumulating enough maybe). I have no savings, have very little spare cash (eg I rarely go out as I can't afford drinks/taxis/new outfit etc) but he has lots. It would take him three days work to earn enough to pay for the oil, he has enough in his account to pay for it already anyway.

His exact words "Oil is a house cost that we budgeted for and not an addition which I am happy to pay for"

Now I am rubbish with money, I will absolutely own up to that, in fact one of the reasons I am so skint is that I am trying hard to pay off a loan. Without the monthly loan payment I would be much more comfortable and would be able to contribute more to family outings trips etc- he pays for all "extra curricular" activities holidays/outings/meals out/etc, but I can't pay half of the oil cost. I do not want to "owe" him the money I want him to pay it so I am not in debt to my husband as well as the sodding bank.

AIBU? Or because I am rubbish with money is he right in not financing my obligations whilst I am paying the loan back?

I am posting this at work and wont be able to log in for a few hours but hopefully you will be able to give me some perspective on my return!

Thanks in advance.

"You expect me to pay 50% of all bills when you earn three times what I do."

This means that I am contributing x% of my income while you are only contributing X% of your income. This means that I am contributing X% MORE than you. That isn't fair and we need to come to some other arrangement.

You should pay the same PERCENTAGE of your income, not the same pound amount.

If your relationship has just 'developed' this way, but he's a really good guy, honest... then he will listen to you, he will see that the current system actually means you are contributing far more than him, and he will want to change it. He will be desperate to change it, because he won't want to be unfair to you, him being a great guy and all.

You will also be able to talk freely to him, because he's not an ogre, so you won't be worried about how he'll react.

You could also liken it to taxation. the poorest pay a lower percentage, don't they? The very rich are on what? Why is that?

You must present a bill to your H for childcare and household labour, since the birth of your first child.

OP - I can see how tings just eveolve without much logic - but that doesn't make it wrong to stop in your tracks and have a re-think that suoits your new circumstances.

I think you need a calm discussion with your DH. Explain that now you are soending half your week doing childcare, that is your contribution to the partnership and it is equally valuable as a financila contribution. That the two of you are a legal entity, with shared assets. You should pool these assets, meet your joint liabilities together out of these assets. Point out that half the debt is from when he was making no financial contribution. Find a way that works for both of you, but it needs to be appropriate for the way your household now works - which is with you working p/t.

Get him to think about this: in a family, where you both share responsibility for keeping your household going in terms of money and childcare, what is FAIR is not always the same as what is EQUAL. Or, what is equal may not be fair.

He sounds like my ex. On the face of it he seems a "good guy" too. In reality he is a nasty controlling bully who kept me & the kids virtual prisoners in our own home for years while he did exactly as he pleased. I have limited earning power because I have a SN child, but his income was more than adequate for us all. We could of had fabulous holidays & a really nice life together, but he begrudged every penny spent & chose to spend his time doing diy, working or (as I later discovered) sg other women. I didn't leave because he destroyed my confidence & lead me to believe I was worthless & would end up in some complete flea pit with the kids. I love them too much to of done that to them.

Things finally came to a head when my father lay in hospital dying & ex made his feelings perfectly clear that I should rush back to pick up the kids from school as usual because he was far too busy at work to do it. I pulled him up on this & he decided to inform me that he had not loved me since 6 months after we got married (9 years before) & had been unhappy for years. With his feelings finally out he openly treated me like s**t, even infront of the kids, & I had a nightmare year before finally getting the keys to my new home where he had no legal right to harass me. :)

Around the time of the move I got together with my current partner, who is everything my ex is not. He loves me & the kids & wants to make us happy. 3 years on we are in the process of buying a place together. A fresh start in a new area. It's scary, as the kids are pretty anti moving, (their dad poisons their minds) but together we'll get over it.

Dp & I are a partnership, a team. Our finances will be pooled in a single account, & if money allows we will each have a bit of "pocket money" to do our own thing with.

You need to have a serious think about if this relationship is right for you & your kids. It sounds quite damaging to me.

Good luck. :)

You say the debt was because you were living it up a bit at that moment in your life. BUT you were earning and if you hadn't been paying for him then you would have been able to to afford to live it up a bit. So the debt was caused by your paying for him at that time. He should pay his share of of that debt.

This thread has made me realise even more how lucky I am

It sounds like its horrible being you

"Our finances are very separate. This worked fine when we were just a couple who both worked full time but now we are married with two children and I work part time to spend more time with the children I think it should change.

We've just run out of oil, (heating) and it will cost £1100 for a top up. Normal joint account balance never has enough cash for such a big payment in one go (over a year, monthly payment accumulating enough maybe). I have no savings, have very little spare cash (eg I rarely go out as I can't afford drinks/taxis/new outfit etc) but he has lots. It would take him three days work to earn enough to pay for the oil, he has enough in his account to pay for it already anyway.

His exact words "Oil is a house cost that we budgeted for and not an addition which I am happy to pay for""

"I don't have an overdraft / credit cards/ store cards etc etc and stick to a tight budget. (no choice!) About 50% debt accumulated whilst dh was student and I was sole breadwinner before dc and careers- not suggesting that all of this was householdstuff, but more importantly I paid because he had no means to. It was my choice though, and that's just what you do when you are long term. "

Basically, you bailed him out when he didn't have the means, but now you don't have the means, not only are you paying above the odds for everything in the house (ie you only get a part-time wage but are expected to contribute as if you got a full-time wage, which doesn't even start to take into account the hours you work looking after your joint children), but you are also paying off (by yourself) debt that's his fault you've got in the first place.
Okay, the debt was in your name; but I bet that's because as a student, he wouldn't have been given a loan in his name.

Basically, you need to tell him that he owes you all of the edbt repayments that were accumulated as a direct result of him being a student.
then you can go back to doing your 50/50 if you want.

but I would think on top of him paying you back for bailing him out, you need to set out a strategy to work out a percentage of your actual earnings, and put those in the pot.
Say, household bills come to £500 a month, and you earn £250 a month and earns £500 a month. It's fair for you to put 2/3 of your ages in and him to put 2/3 of his wages in. Then you'll pay £167.50, and he'll pay £335 (this is ish...), which comes to £502.50.
that's how you work it out, especially as you are looking after the children. (that is your job)

Arse
Open Mouth's model is the one most people use.

Control issues - this is a big red warning light if you give way on this there will be no way back. Is it just on this money issue he is like this or are there other issues en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

Oldenglish- no he is not like that.

Sparkles- that's awful. Your ex sounds really mean and I can understand why you now have a lovely new partner- glad it's working for you.

Dh is kind and thoughtful in other ways, he's affectionate and silly and spontaneous and funny and "gets" me- but as per everybody on the whole planet he has flaws.

We are married. For me (and him) this is it. I believe in marriage as an institution and the importance of this to our young family. I am not unhappy, perhaps a smidge unfulfilled at present but for me, being married means you take the rough with the smooth and just because the scales are not tipped in my favour at present does not mean I want to leave him or would seriously consider doing so. I would like to think that we will get back on a more even footing at some point but the fact that dh is emotionally rather illiterate and he takes a while to absorb new ideas, especially in connection with other people's feelings, means this is gOing to be an uphill struggle if indecide to raise this. Trying to convince him of an abstract concept that he's never considered before is going to be very tough but not impossible I hope.

How convenient for him and his bank balance to be emotionally illiterate. what an excellent excuse to have lots of money for himself.

It is not an abstract concept. It is called being a family, a team, and making things FAIR.
Every married couple I know in a similar situation adopts a pro-rata approach to finances. Often the 70/30 model but sometimes different depending on salaries, part time or full time, childcare etc.
He will make it tough to convince him because that obviously is to his advantage.
You need to actually stand up for yourself on this one. Surely other people in real life could tell you, and your husband, how their household budget is managed so he hears it from people in real life.

He will make this difficult for you because he wants to. Don't let him off with a shit excuse about being emotionally illiterate.

Kat you are right i know, ineed to grow a pair. The prospect of having this out with him though is a bit daunting as I know it will make my life almost intolerable for a while, I struggle to deal with tension between us and there most certainly will be if we have to have this conversation. I think what will make it hardest for him is that for 17 years this has not been an issue between us, he will feel it is coming out of nowhere and if I was so unhappy with the finances why didn't I speak up before?

OP - how about if you explained to him that you cannot afford the lifestyle you have together on your part-time salary and contributing 50% of the bills? Say you want to go back to work full-time but in order to do that, you can't do the other household stuff which you currently do so you need to renegotiate.

At that point, it's not that you expect him to put his hand in his pocket and you're willing to make a lifestyle sacrifice too.

So basically he has got away with this for ages because you are scared of talking about it with him? He knows he will make your life intolerable so you will just put up with whatever he wants?
It may have been an appropriate way of managing money at the beginning of your relationship. But people in an equal partnership are not afraid to discuss issues with each other and make changes as and when required.
I would not like to be in a situation where somebody got away with making me feel like shit because they had a history of being intolerable whenever I tried to discuss things.
A husband who makes your life intolerable is not one I would want to live with.

Presumably you haven't had children for the past 17 years though?

He is treating you like a child. Both by refusing to pay off your debt (and that really is cutting off his nose to spite his face - why does it benefit any of you that you're paying interest on a loan?) and by refusing to pay for the heating.

You look after his children. You are there so that he can work long hours to make his business a success. And the only reason it is a success, and that he still has a family, is because of you.

Assuming you have small children, I think that it's absolutely normal to realise that what worked in the past doesn't work now because it's leaving you and the children short of money. And that is not on. I am not saying you should leave him but you do need to kick up the most almighty fuss about this, however much tension there might be.

The children aren't short of anything- it's just me, and my personal disposable income is nil. If I need something, eg new shoes for work, if I mention it whilst we are out then we will go and get me a pair- he will pay. But it is clear this is from his money and he is treating me- whilst i am grateful this makes me feel utterly rubbish because I have had to rely on him to pay for it. He doesn't trust me with money because of my previous poor performance, and I can completely understand that.

I should say that the oil is ordered, he will be paying and then recouping the cash out of the joint account monthly so that there isn't a massive hole all in one go.

Being committed to a marriage does NOT mean accepting appalling treatment.

The "rough and the smooth" are the different phases of life, the curveballs life throws at you. They are NOT one person putting up with abuse from the other.

Because that's what is going on here - this "great" guy is leaving you short of money and using imagined past financial transgressions to keep you subservient to him.

IF he's a great guy, and this is all an accident of circumstance, he will be glad you raised it, keen to sort it ASAP, and profoundly embarrassed that he allowed a situation like this to arise in the first place.

Do you really need me to point out that taking umbrage that someone is raising something as a problem because "why wasn't it an issue before now?" is manipulative and dishonest?

That means you can never raise ANY issue at any point now or in the future.

Good marriages develop over years as constant renegotiation of boundaries while circumstances and people change.

You, on the other hand, have apparently signed up for a lifetime of uncomplaining compliance with rules established when you were teenagers, and when (as now) he entirely dominated you.

Wake up. He is being a dick about this. You need to sort it.

So you accept that his financial abuse is reasonable?

And you think it's OK for him to punish you for getting into debt when you were financially supporting him?

He is going to take money out of the joint account to put back into his own private savings?!

That is totally, totally fucked up.

As is being grateful to your husband that you are shod.

Right so he is keeping you deliberately in a state where you have no disposable income and therefore he has complete power over you financially and you are not even able to buy shoes for yourself. You have to ask/beg for whatever you need and justify it to him. While he can have whatever he wants because he has lots of money. He wants you to be grateful to him and completely dependent on his generosity.
This is seriously bad behaviour.
Also if he was a "great guy" you would be able to talk about this with him without you having any fear of him making your life intolerable. You should not be scared of your husband making your life a misery. If I thought someone would deliberately make me miserable I would not want to live with them.

Northerngirl- I wouldn't try calling his bluff like that to be honest, if I said that I would like to go back to work full time he wouldn't protest- but I don't want to because of the children. When ds2 goes to school this time next year, I hope to be working 35 hours over 5 days so that I only need child care for 3 of the after school sessions- 2 at present- and I could cry about that tbh. He isn't happy for me to continue to work over 4 days, doesn't see why I should have a day off when he doesn't. And I could do with the cash because whilst I feel bad about my children going to after school club, he pays all the childcare and it wouldn't cost me anything- I can't go on not being able to have any money of my own. I feel like a terrible mum for putting my needs above what i think is best for my children, when so many people don't have a choice and exist on far less money than our family does.

a good husband, my arse. 'recouping' money to heat the house his own kids live in?

what a nasty, controlling skinflint.

and you're accustomed to his abuse because that is what it is, financial abuse.

if you're lucky, he'll drop dead before you and you can at least enjoy some of the money you enabled him to earn by supporting his selfish arse as a student.

if you're not, you'll go on living as a prisoner to this person who treats you in a way he wouldn't get with treating hired staff.

if you get a backbone, at least get a FT job and then go halves outsourcing all the work.

'He isn't happy for me to continue to work over 4 days, doesn't see why I should have a day off when he doesn't.'

Good grief! This is shocking.

He thinks you are having time off when in fact you are looking after the children.
He clearly places no value on what you do.
He is being very greedy amassing lots of funds for himself. If he takes money back from the joint account to put back in his savings, that will leave you even more short of money in the future.
Why shouldn't he pay for the childcare? They are his children too.
Why should your needs be worth nothing and his wishes to get rich while his wife can't even buy herself a pair of shoes be acceptable.

If you want to live like this that is your choice. i guess you have got used to being walked all over and not valued. But this behaviour is neither normal nor acceptable.

"But how do I convince him that our way is the wrong way? He does not see why he should bail me out of my self inflicted debt, not all of it was down to supporting him."

Because it is in the family's best interest!
The family will be better off if you dont have to pay off a loan and interest amount every month.

At the moment, YOU are in fact subsidizing his earnings, rather than the other way around, as it benefits the entire family that you work less and care for your children.

Do you have a cleaner?

How much does he help in the house?

If you do all the cooking and the cleaning and childcare, you are SAVING your family a lot of money.

What a nasty piece of work this guy is - he is all about "fairness" when it is about taking stuff from you, making sure you don't have a pick more than he.

But there's a pretty big double standard when he's the one benefitting and you are helping him or short of money.

There's no love there for you, can't you see that?

Someone who loved you would want you to be happy, not keeping an eye out to make sure you never get anything good.

he doesn't need convincing. He knows what he is doing is wrong and I reckon he is doing it on purpose as he has massive financial power over you. What he needs is not convincing but an ultimatum and a strong statement that you are not prepared to tolerate being taken advantage of any more.

You are a family so you do what is best for everyone in the family. He doesn't see it that way, he's only bothered about himself.