To be cross that dh expects me to pay for exactly half of household expenses when he earns twice what I do?

[theredsalamander]

Our finances are very separate. This worked fine when we were just a couple who both worked full time but now we are married with two children and I work part time to spend more time with the children I think it should change.

We've just run out of oil, (heating) and it will cost £1100 for a top up. Normal joint account balance never has enough cash for such a big payment in one go (over a year, monthly payment accumulating enough maybe). I have no savings, have very little spare cash (eg I rarely go out as I can't afford drinks/taxis/new outfit etc) but he has lots. It would take him three days work to earn enough to pay for the oil, he has enough in his account to pay for it already anyway.

His exact words "Oil is a house cost that we budgeted for and not an addition which I am happy to pay for"

Now I am rubbish with money, I will absolutely own up to that, in fact one of the reasons I am so skint is that I am trying hard to pay off a loan. Without the monthly loan payment I would be much more comfortable and would be able to contribute more to family outings trips etc- he pays for all "extra curricular" activities holidays/outings/meals out/etc, but I can't pay half of the oil cost. I do not want to "owe" him the money I want him to pay it so I am not in debt to my husband as well as the sodding bank.

AIBU? Or because I am rubbish with money is he right in not financing my obligations whilst I am paying the loan back?

I am posting this at work and wont be able to log in for a few hours but hopefully you will be able to give me some perspective on my return!

Thanks in advance.

Whatever you do, don't take the advice to start billing him for your work.

That course of action accepts his argument that you are two separate (and mutually hostile) financial units.

It also opens the door for even worse behaviour on his part. He already thinks he's your boss. If you place a pricetag around your neck, prepare to suffer for it.

Everything everyone else has said! This man makes you feel grateful for putting shoes on your feet!
For a long time I earned more than dp (I also supported him through his phd), we split cost proportionally. Recently it has gone the other way round, we have readressed the split - he pays more- he also pays more of the outings (just as I did when I earnt more) but we still have money for things we want to buy. This man is not nice and loving and all those things you have said. He is letting you pay off a debt he is at least partially resonsible for incurring. He demands you pay 50% to the house when your earnings are not equal. As someone said you would probably be better off if you divorced him!!

I'm very similar to blackduck, I put my OH through his PhD and am still the higher earner. Now he is earning, I have taken on a lot of his debt (it's easier to get a loan in my name), and he pays me half his salary, which I use for the household and his debt. I have more spending money than him, but this was a pre requisite of supporting him for the past 4 years, and anyway most of the extra stuff I buy is not directly for me (currently mostly maternity clothes and stuff for the impending baby!). He, on the other hand, has to ask me if we have enough joint money for him if he wants to splash out.

I know this is different to your situation, but the important thing is this is what we agreed. I'm much better with money, we agreed I manage the finances. I'm in the civil service, so see small pay rises every year, he is an engineer who is likely to see much bigger pay rises and will overtake my earnings soon. Then we'll review where we are and how we go on.

Unless you are both loaded, someone needs to take control of budgeting, but my OH is perfectly happy with our current set up and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I'd be away by the time this idiot returns home from his mountain walking OP. What five star wanker he is being about this - xre-read what you've posted here and ask yourself if you'd be happy for your best friend/sister/daughter to be treated in this manner. Then ask yourself again if he is really the decent bloke you think he is.

So not only does he refuse to address your concerns or reach a compromise, he is fine with punishing the children by taking away their days out?

He is not a decent man. Not at all. Do not blame yourself -- you shouldn't have to articulate things perfectly to have a fair discussion of things, it should be enough for him to know that the current situation is not working.

Can you get counseling on your own, to work out what you should do? I think you need some RL support, definitely.

I would be worried how he will treat the DC as they get older and start questioning his actions.

I would also be worried about what is going on with all that cash of his that she has no access to. most men in a family unit do not squirrel away money for themselves in this manner. Having money of your own so you don't have to ask permission to buy shoes etc is necessary. But amassing a big fund and being so reluctant to dip into any of it whilst threatening to make your kids go without?? Why does he need all this cash of his own? What is he spending it on?

No you wouldn't Dilly.

The OP has been domineered by this guy since they were both teenagers.

That's why she keeps talking about how this situation "developed" - she has been conditioned to accept his warped logic, accept blame for displeasing him, accept that she can never ask for change without being in the wrong, accept that if he punishes the children to get at her, it is her fault, accept that she can't think straight and he is always right, accept that he us a good guy despite the way he treats her.

Listen to how she describes her commitment to the marriage - she has agreed that no matter what happens, she will neither leave, nor exercise her right to make it clear that she will leave unless she is treated well.

None of us can say that it would be easy to leave if this was all we'd known for our entire married lives.

First thered needs to see her situation for what it is.

Sorry, entire adult lives.

OP, I agree that you need RL support - I also agree that if you talk to a friend in RL about this, you may very well find that they have concerns about your relationship already.

I don't often say this on threads on here, but it really sounds as though you'd be better off divorced (financially and in every other way). You say you don't want to turn your DC's lives upside down, but the alternative is bringing them up with a controlling bastard for a father. That will be much more damaging to them, lifelong, than being children of divorced parents.

" he has refused to even consider changing the way our finances work but has declined to give me a reason"

"has wffectively said he doesnt nees to give me a reason why, he's just not doing it"

"he said well stuff it I'm not paying for any of those things now"

Nice. So how on earth do you arrive at: "Just saying that dhs arguments are all quite reasonable and if I can see the logic in what he is saying"

Doesn't sound reasonable or logical to me in the slightest. More like a toddler tantrum. Is there any area of your life together where he affords you some respect?

I would spend that extra day "off" that you get to have a good rummage around the house and find out exactly how much saving.

Please, confide in a good friend, you will be stunned to find out that she has probably already noticed his controlling behaviour but hasn't mentioned it so as not to upset you.

Salamander, I feel sad that you put yourself down so easily.

You didn't handle it badly.
You are not 'grabby' - far from it.
You don't even seem that bad with money - but you let him treat you like a child because he says you can't be trusted.

And look what he has done - used his 'generous' payments of other joint and household expenses (which family outings count as) to control you, threaten you and 'win' the argument. By withdrawing things je thinks he can force you into his way.

His behaviour is really, really horrible.

You sound lovely.

Please go on an assertiveness course, or seek counselling about your relationship by yourself. Or have a look at the freedon training stuff.

What a fucking horrible wanker. Really.

He text earlier to say that he's not going to camp over tonight he's going to come back. I am scared of the conversation we are going to have to have, because for the first time it will be me making demands and saying this is how it's got to be, and I feel like I am forcing him by iasuing an ultimatum when I am so unsure of the reasonableness of my argument.

Thank you so so much for the advice and "go for it vibes" on this thread. I do think that I have realised his behaviour hasn't been right for a long long time but pushed the thought down because I don't want to be seen as being a failure. Now having someone else (or lots of someone elses!) be outraged on your behalf and validate these feelings does make things hit home a bit.

guess my next post will be in relationships- either way!

You don't have to issue any ultimatums at this stage. Keep calm and be rational. You are 100% in the right, so no need to be "unsure of the reasonableness of your argument." Just say you'd like to discuss restructuring your financial arrangements to a way that better suits you both.
And if he accuses you of being grabby, then you have to remind him of how you were more than happy to sub him through his qualifications.

Just wanted to point out that if he earns 3 times as much as you then if he increased his contribution to the joint account to be the same % of his salary as you are currently paying then ye would have twice as much money going into the joint account every month. Surely this would cover days out, the gym etc with lots left over? And would still leave him with much more spending money than you.

Our situation is the reverse of yours, I an self-employed and earn about 4 times as much as DH. We don't have my money - just ours, we are a family.
Your husband is an asshole.

I'm curious as to what, exactly, he is saving "his" money for? Is he intending to have a blow-out on a top-of-the-range holiday? For himself only? Or a fantastic car, that only he can drive?

Selfish arse. I refuse to believe that this is the only area he is behaving badly in. His attitude towards this crucial matter indicates a sense of entitlement and selfishness that must spill over into other aspects of your marriage and family life. Sounds as if it's time you took him down of the pedestal you seem to have him on and called him on some of his attitudes.

This man let you pay for everything when you were better off than him.
Now you are struggling he won't return the favour and doesn't accept your debt is mostly because of him.
He begrudges you a day off because he doesn't get one.
Buying you a pair of shoes is a huge deal and I suspect you have to pay him back in other ways.
He refuses to answer to you or explain his decisions.
You will be blamed for him having to cut his weekend short.
I feel he is coming home to sort you out.

Is this really how you want the rest of your life to go and how you want your sons to treat their wives?

A very good point. He was happy to pay nothing when it suited him. This meant that you had to get into debt, because he was not contributing.
If you manage to sort out a more reasonable arrangement, tell him that of course you will increase your contribution proportionally once you go back to full time work, adjusting for increased childcare costs. Right now you can pay 25% for example, but when you are working more you may be able to put it up to 30-35%.
Also you are not having a day off. You are working in the home. If he doesn't like it why doesn't he go down to a 4 day week too and do childcare and housework for a day so you can work more? Bet he doesn't like that idea.

Good luck anyway. Do not doubt for one second that you are being totally reasonable.

Rehearse! The points you need to make are:

1. Any money either of you earn is family money, not "his" and "yours"- you have entered into a legally enforceable commitment to pool resources- whether he likes or accepts it or not, that's what he did when he married you;

2. When you were earning and he was a student, you paid more into the household pot - which is as it should be, because you are a unit, financially, not two separate entities. He was happy to let you do this;

3. Now, when it is to his benefit to keep finances separate, this is what you have ended up doing, with the result that you have virtually no disposable income left at the end of the month and he has lots. That wouldn't be fair anyway, but the fact you worked on the basis of proportions of income when he was the lower earner just adds insult to injury;

4. You would like to rejig your family finances in such a way as to allow you some money of your own at the end of each month, to spend as you choose, rather than having to ask him to buy you some shoes, or (presumably) give you a tenner if you want to go and meet your friends for a coffee;

5. You are not impressed by his earlier knee-jerk reaction, which was to dismiss your concerns out of hand and then threatening to cancel trips out, thus effectively taking it out on the kids, but also very much showing you who's boss.

Good luck- I'm like you, I'm crap at arguing and I hate confrontation, so I can imagine how much you're not enjoying this whole thing. I hope it works out for you OP.

Also, that withn the partnership, you do childcare on the days that you don't go to work. This is a significant contribution to the partnerhsip as a whole.

That partners pool all their resources, time, work (of all kinds) and money, for the benefit of the family as a whole. YOu are not 'after' money, you are wanting an arrangement that recognises a true partnership. Without that how can you feel like equals in your marriage?

I am sat here waiting for him to get home and my mind is drawing a blank. I'm going to forget all the reasons why I feel so controlled and come across as an incoherent mess. Oh goodness herebhe is, wish me luck.