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Original poster

Change in contact order!

158 replies

Stressed74 · 09/03/2011 10:40

Hi, my ex husband has decided he is going to take me back to court to make sure that I allow him to see his daughter. I have never once stopped him from seeing his daughter and have happily agreed to him seeing her whenever family on his side have also wanted contact with her.
The current contact order states that he sees daughter for 3 days after his 6 at work, this is rotational so never the same days!
Over the years I have willingly changed the court order to allow continuation of contact when ex's shifts have changed.
The draft order has come through and he wants to change everything! He is planning to move to our town, he doesn't live that far away at mo about ten mins away, and when he does he wants the court to agree that our daughter has one week with him and one week with me etc, he's changing all holidays that have been agreed verbally.
Currently it was verbally agreed between us that he would see daughter every other weekend in line with his days off. This is perfect for us as a family, and incidentally is what I proposed in 2004 but he said he couldn't change his work patterns!
My daughter is almost 12 and has expressed that she does not want things to change and does not want to be forced into when she sees her dad, she has explained that to her dad who basically told her opinion didn't count and if that's what the judges decide then that's what will happen.
She has had this routine for 11 years, she has lived with me and my partner who has been fantastic at supporting daughter through everything and for the past 4 years has also lived with her little brother.
My daughter is saying that she does not want to see her father this weekend and based on emails and texts he has sent me and the fact he has admitted that he calls me names and slagged me off in front of our daughter I am deeply concerned about forcing her to go. I don't want to force my daughter but am confused over the legality of it technically not being in line with the contact order.
Also, do the courts genuinely listen to the children, ardbthey likely to agree that tearing a family apart is right just because his step children have all left home now? So confused!

OP posts:
Hereforlife · 20/03/2011 10:16

Well with that theory teenage boys should live with their dads then?

STIDW · 20/03/2011 11:01

Many mums (and dads for that matter) struggle with teenagers going through a rebellious stage. I can't say I was my daughter's best friend when she was a teenager, I was a parent. Now she is older we are best friends. Dads can be good parents and some make better parents than some mums.

When children are insecure about their natural parents they tend to have low self esteem leading to emotional and behavioural problems later on. If communication between parents is distorted teenagers don't have a good model to base their own relationships on and they often have dysfunctional relationships in adulthood.

cestlavielife · 21/03/2011 00:05

what a bizarre theory funnyperson! and an insult to the single dads and widowers on these forums.

depends on the mother.... and the father

Original poster
Stressed74 · 21/03/2011 22:19

@resolution... I will ring them tomorrow because knowing my luck they wont bother telling me and the court will think I'm just an ass for not being there!!! Hmm

OP posts:
Collaborate · 21/03/2011 23:50

Resolution here. (new name)

Sorry I didn't get back to you. Will pm you

Original poster
Stressed74 · 22/03/2011 16:43

Have rung court and it was issued 21st...

So have to wait for it to be given to me!

According to court i need to have it at least 4 weeks before date which is 13th May!!! Talk about dragging it out... Have asked if it can be dealt with any earlier as daughter is still refusing to go and see her father despite me trying to persuade her but she is now turning her frustration on me!

Is there anyway i can get this sorted asap for my daughters sake!!!

Had texts off ex again saying that i'm stopping contact and he wants to see her this weekend but i already know daughter has no intention of going.

Help...my head is starting to bruise from banging it against a brick wall think i need a stiff drink or 2

OP posts:
Collaborate · 22/03/2011 19:21

Just report back to him the fact that she's refusing to go. Leave it at that for now.

Original poster
Stressed74 · 22/03/2011 21:17

@collaborate.... I have told him that she does not want to see him, and daughter has told him tonight that she doesnt want to see him this weekend.
However, this isnt going to look good on me and am very torn about the court viewing this very negatively...

Also what is a directions hearing???

OP posts:
Collaborate · 22/03/2011 22:17

It is a hearing where the court makes directions about what you both should do to make the case ready for trial - eg file statements, get reports etc.

There seems to have been a significant change in circumstances since the last order was made. I don't think you can be criticised for backing off your daughter for now and just gently reminding her whenever she's supposed to be seeing dad. You ought to mention to her that she may have to speak to someone independent who will be very keen to hear what she thinks.

Original poster
Stressed74 · 22/03/2011 23:47

@collaborate yes she is aware that she will be spoken to by cafcass, and that they wont tell either me or her dad what she says! I have explained that all she has to do is explain how she feels and what she wants. And all she keeps saying is that she doesnt want things to change and shes happy with how things have been for 12 years! I feel sorry for her as she is really angry with her dad and until recently never realised that she doesnt have the relationship i thought she did have with him, and thats quite sad.

But i guess it will all come out in court so to speak!

OP posts:
Collaborate · 23/03/2011 00:09

Sometimes you just need to have your day in court and feel that you've been listened to. Whatever the outcome, do let us know how the 1st hearing goes.

Original poster
Stressed74 · 23/03/2011 00:26

Will do!

OP posts:
Original poster
Stressed74 · 29/03/2011 13:42

Okay... Things are getting really silly! Have been told by court that papers were given back to Ex 21st March, court date is 13th May! Have not recieved them yet but i guess he will make sure i dont see what lies hes wrote til 13th April.

My daughter is still refusing to go see him, so she has not seen him since 1st march, i did manage to persuade her to have some tea with him one day after school to chat but when she suggested this to him he asked for more and she put the phone down and then refused to go.

This weekend my daughter has had constant texts off her father ranging from that her opinion is based on lies and deciet from me to that she is not old enough to make any desicions and she does what shes told. My daughter gets her fiery temper clearly from me and some of the texts that she has sent in return have been close to down right nasty, but at the same time she wants her father to listen to her and use the money he says he hasnt got to go on holiday with her! Her stepmother then also starting texting my daughter, i know my daughter is forced to treat her stepmother as her mother when she their even down to getting her mothers day cards, but i have always bit my tongue...hard! So you can imagine that when she started it got a bit silly.

The stepmother then sent me a text saying that my daughters behaviour was worrying her!

How do i deal with this??? Daughter is also getting emails off her father saying one day she'll know the truth etc...

My daughter is getting very messed up and i want this sorted asap but unfortunately it cant be heard any earlier!

Could a call to cafcass help get it sorted quicker?

OP posts:
Original poster
Stressed74 · 29/03/2011 14:03

Oh...ive rang cafcass and they have had nothing sent over from the court yet, so they cannot help!

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 29/03/2011 15:43

"emails off her father saying one day she'll know the truth " wow that is a line my exP uses too.... it is all my fault and one day they will know the truth. er they know the truth already....

maybe go to GP ask about a child-friendly counsellor for her to talk to? or someone at school?

Original poster
Stressed74 · 29/03/2011 22:01

Thanks cestlavielife! Its nice to know someone else also has to endure this type of person! I have always said to myself that one day my daughter will make up her own mind on things and then its up to her, i wont influence her in any way.

But yeah hes said that in emails and texts to her and like you nothing is his fault its all me, me, me....

I dont know what to do to try and salvage whats left, i want her to have a relationship with her father whether she sees hims every week or just once a month she should have some kind of contact. She is so angry now that he doesnt listen and i dont know what to do to help her, her father sure as hell wont listen to me and even if he did it would my fault!

I rang cafcass who said they cant help as they have not hd a referral off the court, i was going to ring the childrens legal centre but got side tracked by having to collect her from school after spraining her ankle at netball!!!

I dont know how to deal with the problem in her life which is her father is nit interested in what she has to say and is playing mind games with her now which is nit healthy

OP posts:
wasthatthatguy · 30/03/2011 11:07

Stressed74 I am not a lawyer. Your daughter is 12. At what age is she entitled to decide for herself where she lives? I think that may be 16. The only "evidence" I have for that relates to "public law" child care proceedings. According to section 20(11) of the Children Act 1989 a child aged over 16 can volunteer to be accommodated in foster care by a Local Authority regardless of what the parents want :- www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/41/section/20 I think your daughter's wishes, re where she should live, will be taken into account, but her wishes may not become decisive until she is 16?

Collaborate · 30/03/2011 11:26

legally I think you're right, but, in practice, a child aged 11 with strong views will be very persuasive. You ever tried to get a teenager to do something they didn't want to do?

Judges have the same problem, and know it.

Original poster
Stressed74 · 30/03/2011 21:13

Court papers are here! There is no mention of what he wants! Is that normal? It says he applied for a variation order but dont know what the variation is... It claims that i stopped contact on 11feb, when actually we agreed on 13th feb that daughter would come back at 12 so she could be told her beloved kitten had been killed on the road on friday 11th! Thats breaching the contact order, i apparently have also broke it on numerous occassions, clearly allowing daughter @ his requset to spend eve over his after a celebration meal was also breaking the order and allowing daughter to go shopping with his mum who was going to his house is also breaching court order! Hmmmmm..... No mention of the countless times that he has broke it and i have agreed so that daughter can have contact instead of being awkward, more fool me!

I spoke to court who said they have exactly same docs i've got so do not know what he is actually asking for!

Is this normal? Is he likely to hit me with what he wants at direction hearing and take it from there?

OP posts:
Collaborate · 30/03/2011 22:24

He should have said why he's applying for the order, and that means saying what he wants. I suppose that's going to get sprung on you at court, but there's nothing to stop you writing to his solicitors asking what exactly he's seeking.

CarGirl · 30/03/2011 22:29

He certainly isn't going to making himself look very good to the courts........

It may be also writing to his solicitor and asking why he won't listen to his dds wishes and you would welcome suggestions at how you can force her to see him when all she wants is for the status quo to continue.

Everytime you write to his solicitor it costs you nothing and you may get some enlightenment, it may also make his solicitor more aware that he's quite possibly been lied too (and it will cost your ex £)

Original poster
Stressed74 · 30/03/2011 23:46

The court order nowhere says what he is applying for, i rang the court basically to find out if ex sol had 'accidentally' forgot to enclose the document regarding what variation he actually wants! However like i said prev the court have confirmed they have exactly the same docs i have.

I have tried to ask his sol for a response to questions and got no response so doubt writing to them would get me any further, personally i think that as i told them i'd be representing myself they are trying to baffle me and not be maybe as straight if i had a solicitor!

In the court papers there is a part which asks if i think that dd would be at risk of being exposed to negative behaviour, cant remember exactly what it says, but i think that i should put yes and write a statement saying that he is refusing to listen to dd, is trying to undermine me to her via text and email, pointing blame at me for everything which is impacting on dd massively now and has resulted in dd refusing to see him! Also whether to mention i have spoken to cafcass and asked for their help twice as i'm concerned about her mental well being.

OP posts:
Collaborate · 31/03/2011 07:23

If you think the child is at risk of suffering harm then you need to complete a form C1A. But I don't think that is the type of harm you need. I'd do a full statement now if I were you. Get it all down. Although you don't strictly have permission to file one, you're a LIP and it would be good for the court to k ow everything you're saying. It's easy to be distracted and diverted in court, so you end up leaving frustrated you never got to make certain points. Just produce it 48 hours before (and let his solicitors have a copy). File it in court too.

Original poster
Stressed74 · 31/03/2011 07:26

Okay thanks for advice :)

OP posts:
wasthatthatguy · 01/04/2011 09:59

Stressed74 Your first hearing is a "Directions Hearing", which is where a judge will say how the case should be dealt with, ie what needs to be done and within what time limits. Your ex's legal team will probably turn up with a list of directions they would like the judge to make. You could ask them to provide you with a copy of that list a few days before the hearing. Not sure if they are obliged to do that. The judge will probably want to know if you have any objections to any of the directions they request and or any directions you yourself are requesting. There is probably a standard list of directions somewhere, possibly in a "Practice Direction", or such like, relating to the Rules. Not sure if the 1991 or 2005 Rules apply to your case. The 2005 Rules come into force 6 Apr 2011. You could look at the relevant parts of both sets of Rules for general info.

The Family Proceedings Rules 1991 :- www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1991/1247/contents/made

The Family Procedure Rules 2010 :- www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2010/2955/contents/made