Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Legal matters

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have any legal concerns we suggest you consult a solicitor.

Original poster

Change in contact order!

158 replies

Stressed74 · 09/03/2011 10:40

Hi, my ex husband has decided he is going to take me back to court to make sure that I allow him to see his daughter. I have never once stopped him from seeing his daughter and have happily agreed to him seeing her whenever family on his side have also wanted contact with her.
The current contact order states that he sees daughter for 3 days after his 6 at work, this is rotational so never the same days!
Over the years I have willingly changed the court order to allow continuation of contact when ex's shifts have changed.
The draft order has come through and he wants to change everything! He is planning to move to our town, he doesn't live that far away at mo about ten mins away, and when he does he wants the court to agree that our daughter has one week with him and one week with me etc, he's changing all holidays that have been agreed verbally.
Currently it was verbally agreed between us that he would see daughter every other weekend in line with his days off. This is perfect for us as a family, and incidentally is what I proposed in 2004 but he said he couldn't change his work patterns!
My daughter is almost 12 and has expressed that she does not want things to change and does not want to be forced into when she sees her dad, she has explained that to her dad who basically told her opinion didn't count and if that's what the judges decide then that's what will happen.
She has had this routine for 11 years, she has lived with me and my partner who has been fantastic at supporting daughter through everything and for the past 4 years has also lived with her little brother.
My daughter is saying that she does not want to see her father this weekend and based on emails and texts he has sent me and the fact he has admitted that he calls me names and slagged me off in front of our daughter I am deeply concerned about forcing her to go. I don't want to force my daughter but am confused over the legality of it technically not being in line with the contact order.
Also, do the courts genuinely listen to the children, ardbthey likely to agree that tearing a family apart is right just because his step children have all left home now? So confused!

OP posts:
iwantadogbutarabbitwoulddo · 02/04/2011 22:12

OP
just wanted to say that your daughter sounds like she's growing into strong woman who knows her own mind. Give her a high five from me.

Your ex sounds like a controlling bum head.

Original poster
Stressed74 · 03/04/2011 21:12

Yeah iwanta but the problem is she is so adament its unreal...and i have to face the wrath of court when ex turns it to be all my fault!!!!!

And yes he is!!!!

OP posts:
CarGirl · 03/04/2011 21:16

It will be interesting to see what Cafcass recommend!

Original poster
Stressed74 · 04/04/2011 15:32

Hmmm.. I have heard good and bad about cafcass. I have tried to get them involved already but they wont as they have not had a referral from court yet! I'd like to think that they genuinely will listen to dd and what she wants although i would be stunned if they suggested to the court what dd wants...but it would be nice to think that some one somewhere may take on boards the thoughts, feelings and wishes of my 12 year old dd...otherwise i guess i'll be spending loads of time in front of judges!

OP posts:
Collaborate · 04/04/2011 17:13

They will listen to her and IME respect her wishes. The courts are hot on that at the moment provided they don't think she's been influenced by you - and from what I can tell from your posts the opposite appears to be the case - you should be ok.

Original poster
Stressed74 · 14/04/2011 13:02

Okay... Had another letter off ex solicitor! As its easter dd is supposed to be at her dads for week...again she has refused to go! Again i have tried to reason with her and she is not interested...

Letter has draft order with it and it no different from what was sent originally, just to clarify the court do not have a copy of this draft order...although they do now because i sent it them!

Dd has already told ex she would not be going at easter and solicitor has told me that i have to encourage contact and i am clearly not!!!

The stepmother was on phone other day, even though she has been told to butt out, and suggested that we just take dd over to their house and leave her there!!! So she is forced to have contact...

What is tge best way to deal with letter??? I have had some great advice.

I have spoken to cafcass again! And they are going to be at 1st hearing.

Oh, also in todays letter it says that they will produce todays letter to court if it goes to a final hearing to show that ex has tried to resolve this abd that i have basically caused this as i am unreasonable!!! Looks like i cant win...

OP posts:
Collaborate · 14/04/2011 15:04

Have you applied to vary the order? If you haven't I think you should, by completing a C1.

Sorry if you've mentioned this before - long thread and my head is a cabbage at the moment.

CarGirl · 14/04/2011 19:17

Can you reply to the ex and the solicitor stating that you have asked dd to go and she is refusing. You can invite ex to come and try and collect her but you are not prepared to force her into it?

Original poster
Stressed74 · 14/04/2011 20:39

I have told ex sol that dd is refusing to go. Dd herself has told father she doesnt want to go!!!

OP posts:
CarGirl · 14/04/2011 20:55

I think just have it in black and white time and time again so you can show cafcass and the court that you have encouraged and that she has refused.

Keep a diary?

wasthatthatguy · 15/04/2011 10:58

Stressed74 Is your daughter, aged 12, entitled to decide where she will live? Your proceedings are "private law" child contact proceedings. As far as "public law" child care proceedings are concerned, a child aged 16 can volunteer to be accommodated in foster care by a Local Authority, regardless of whether or not his or her parents agree. So perhaps 16 is seen as the age at which a child's wishes become decisive? I think it will probably be best if you tell your daughter she will have to spend some time at her father's place, to keep him, and possibly also the judge, happy. Some sort of flexible arrangement, as in the past, clearly being best, even though there may be a new contact order in place, preferably as agreed by you and your ex, before having to attend any hearings, ie a "consent contact order".

cestlavielife · 15/04/2011 11:02

i think wahtever you do eg even DD telling him is going to be seen by your ex ans "unreasonable" - i get this all the time too.

eg my dd picked up my phone when it pinged a msg ree=cevied -she read it and said "it is a stupid messagefrom dad" - one of his "you are abusive and wrong stopping my children frmo seeing me"

dd said, it isnt you stopping us. we just dont want to"
(and they have valid reasons)

so stand your ground, dont force dd to go or take ehr tehre and drop ehr off - you are listening to her and respecting her views and she eneds to trust you on this.

jsut tell ex politely by email/letter that
"dd is very clear in her views. everyone will get the opportunity at the hearing to present their views"

has cafcass said if dd will be asked to attend court?

if she is not required to attend then presumbly outcome will be that judge orders cafcass to do a wishes and feelings report? to ascertain her views?

so it will drag on....

do you have evidence of texts etc she has sent to him?

of course exP will still suggest that you are involved somehow.

my sympathies .
currently my exP has not taken it back to court but as he now has a barrister friend working with him for free i suspect he might decide to do so - given as quite possibly the version given to barrister friend is quite different from reality... and therefore barrister friend may well support him.

oh well one hopes that the court wil see sense. in your case and mine...
given the evidence.

Collaborate · 15/04/2011 11:39

WTTG - the age thing isn't right. At age 16 the court loses the right to make s8 orders (eg contact/residence etc).

cestlavielife · 15/04/2011 11:49
  • "tell your daughter she will have to spend some time at her father's place, to keep him, and possibly also the judge, happy."

is it the daughter's job to keep the father happy?

is it her job to keep the judge "happy"?

i dont think so... i know what you saying - but it really isnt the Dd responsibility to make the dad happy. she should behave reasonably of course and there are certain expectations but visiting to "make him happy" or to stop him becoming sad or depressed is something else.... no one of us is responsible for another person's happiness.

when my exP send texts to my Dc saying "it will make me happy if you xxxx" " if you dont talk to me i will be sad/depressed etc" i cringe and so do they - as it comes across very emotional blackmailing-y.

Original poster
Stressed74 · 15/04/2011 16:27

Oh...dd had that yesterday!!! Ex told her he was on anti depress drugs coz hes so unhappy....what the hell!!!

I had to deal with dd telling me she hates me because i tried to 'force' contact by telling her she was going today!!! But again he didnt listen to our daughter and told her her opinions are not hers and that its in her best interests that it goea to court, blah blah blah...and the usual!

I'm at the end of my tether and have no idea what the hell to do, while he sits trying to get the sympathy vote i have to deal with a very angry 12 year old who is threatening all sorts...but its my fault that shes like that because she shouldnt know!!!

Grrrrrrrrr

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 15/04/2011 16:29

would dd talk to the GP or someone?
so at least it is someone outside the family? listening to her views ahead of cafcass interview

Original poster
Stressed74 · 15/04/2011 16:35

Probably but i feel awful for her that shes gotta do all this all fir the sake of her father!

I spoke to cafcass yesterday after getting a letter off them saying that they would be there on directions hearing, i explained whats going on...the texts and emails being sent between dd and her dad and asked if they could get it into court earlier than may... Apparently not. Was told to take all the evidence with me incase they say we'll have a look but that was all.

I cant beleive that he is doing this to her, i'm used to his tactics but to start using them on his own daughter is low!

OP posts:
CheeseandGherkins · 15/04/2011 16:42

I think the bottom line is that she cannot forced to go. If she refuses to get out of the car if you're dropping off or refuses to leave the house if he picks up then there is nothing anyone can do about it. It's a lot to put on a 12 year old but it is her choice if she really doesn't want to go.

Gonzo33 · 15/04/2011 17:04

My exh is like this.

Collaborate is giving you good, proper, advice so I won't put any unqualified tuppence in.

I just wanted to wish you well for the court hearings. I was terrified when I had to go but it was no where near as bad as I thought it was going to be and Cafcass were very helpful at that stage.

(((HUGS)))

Collaborate · 15/04/2011 18:13

Just realised I said complete a C1. Meant to say a C2.

Did you send the letter?

CarGirl · 15/04/2011 20:15

Your ex is being such an abusive arse Sad

wasthatthatguy · 16/04/2011 10:01

Stressed74 I don't know how likely this is but, maybe your ex will say your daughter should officially reside with him and he will "deliver" her to your place, so she can spend 50% of her time there with you, then collect her and take her back to his place for 50% of the time. How likely a judge would be to issue a residence order along those lines I don't know, but I think the judge probably could issue such an order if he or she decided to.

Collaborate · 16/04/2011 11:44

Come off it. You're just guessing, scaremongering and wrong. What's your game here?

prh47bridge · 16/04/2011 12:29

Agree with Collaborate.

STIDW · 16/04/2011 15:53

I'm not a lawyer but I agree with Collaborate and prh47bridge. The probability of an order for 50:50 shared residence is virtually non existent unless there is a history of both parents working full time and sharing child care 50:50.

All a parent with the majority of care can do is their best to promote a positive relationship with the other parent. The other parent is responsible for their own actions and the consequences. Using children as an emotional crutch demonstrates an inability of the parent to put the interests of children first.

If the parent without the majority of care is insensitive to the children's feelings they are likely to bring about their own rejection. The courts know very well that forcing contact/residence on an adolescent against their wishes is very likely to lead to unwanted and risky behaviour such as running away.