Change in contact order!

[Stressed74]

Hi, my ex husband has decided he is going to take me back to court to make sure that I allow him to see his daughter. I have never once stopped him from seeing his daughter and have happily agreed to him seeing her whenever family on his side have also wanted contact with her.
The current contact order states that he sees daughter for 3 days after his 6 at work, this is rotational so never the same days!
Over the years I have willingly changed the court order to allow continuation of contact when ex's shifts have changed.
The draft order has come through and he wants to change everything! He is planning to move to our town, he doesn't live that far away at mo about ten mins away, and when he does he wants the court to agree that our daughter has one week with him and one week with me etc, he's changing all holidays that have been agreed verbally.
Currently it was verbally agreed between us that he would see daughter every other weekend in line with his days off. This is perfect for us as a family, and incidentally is what I proposed in 2004 but he said he couldn't change his work patterns!
My daughter is almost 12 and has expressed that she does not want things to change and does not want to be forced into when she sees her dad, she has explained that to her dad who basically told her opinion didn't count and if that's what the judges decide then that's what will happen.
She has had this routine for 11 years, she has lived with me and my partner who has been fantastic at supporting daughter through everything and for the past 4 years has also lived with her little brother.
My daughter is saying that she does not want to see her father this weekend and based on emails and texts he has sent me and the fact he has admitted that he calls me names and slagged me off in front of our daughter I am deeply concerned about forcing her to go. I don't want to force my daughter but am confused over the legality of it technically not being in line with the contact order.
Also, do the courts genuinely listen to the children, ardbthey likely to agree that tearing a family apart is right just because his step children have all left home now? So confused!

@ Stressed74 :- It may be that in the previous proceedings your ex was advised and or knew that the CAFCASS person (social worker) didn't or wouldn't approve of your daughter spending too much time in the vicinity of a teenage boy she wasn't related to. In the family courts blokes are generally assumed guilty until proven innocent!

Their youngest was 6 when my daughter entered their life through her father. So not sure why that would make a difference. But could understand if he was in his teens when he first got introduced to my daughter. But no they were all young aswell. Like I say the youngest stepbrother was about 6 and the eldest step sister was about 9.

Not many people know this, but most child care social workers are suffering from paranoid child abuse psychosis.

@ Stressed74 :- Social workers have vivid imaginations and may have been worried about anyone else who may have been likely to visit the house your ex moved into. But whether your ex can or would be awarded extra contact due to a now safer environment I wouldn't know.

@ Resolution et al :- I am not the only person who has doubts about the "quality" of justice available via social services and or CAFCASS and the family courts :-

Here is a 2007 video of Eric Pickles MP, now Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, talking about Social Services and the Family Courts.

He says that many years ago he was Chairman of the Social Services Committee of a large Local Authority and was appalled by the partiality of files he saw. More time was spent trying to prevent people discovering what was in their file than trying to ensure the file was accurate. Allegations which had been proven to be false continued to be used.....etc

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynf3eyfqrfM

"As for encouraging daughter I have tried every angle even the it won't upset me if you go you know, but nothings worked if anything it makes her angry with me!"

i know what you mean - same isseus ehre with dd 11 - it is getting a balance.
if she ends up being interviewed by cAFCASS she may be asked if you have at any time not encouraged her to see dad - so if she says truthfully "yes mum is always going on at me to see him" then it will be noted...

telling my ex "if you do this then the children wont be happy" - well it always backfires and he then blames me for whatever they feeling. it is never his fault. so while i can see reso's POV i wouldnt advise it !

i relaly cant see any reason why dad could not ahve included daughter in family life with the step children previously - he made a choice not to. the possible paranoia of social workers is way off mark in my view.

yes of course there are problems with the system - any system.

dad ash seen daughter regualry apparently whenever he ash requested
daughter now less keen to see dad
dad now saying well in that case you have to come and live with me every other week.

anyone looking at it from child's POV has to see that this is unreasonable from dad. regardless of moving house/sptekids etc.

he should move, then establish regualr contact with daughter (if DD agrees) then wait and see and if after some months dd wishes to spend more time with him even live there 50/50 then sit and discuss... with dd .

stressed i think if you present to court (and dd tells cafcass what she feels) then you can simply say - when he moves you wish for some time to see how contact is going and now is not the time to decide she goes live there 50/50. it makes no sense at all.

dont make it you wont ever agree - but that it is about DD.

My daughter does want to see her dad, just not this weekend as she is really angry at him that he isn't listening to her. My daughter has said that she wants things to stay the same as they are whether he lives 15mins away or 5mins away. She has said that when and if he does move closer then she would like to see him more, which obviously she would but she means that if she wants to go to his house after school and have tea one night coz she's got nothing else on then she'll make that choice not be told by a judge that that's what she's doing!
She certainly knows her own mind and when she stands up to her dad he really doesn't like it and apparently she's just like me! Lol
So daughter knows what she wants

@ Stressed74 :- Your ex may have caused some confusion by telling your daughter a judge will tell her what to do. I think all a judge is likely to do is say whether the contact order should remain as it is or be modified due to the change in circumstances.

the more you say stressed74 well the more it seems totally bonkers of your ex to be paying solicitors and applying to court.

he is clearly trying to bully you and bully DD.

cant you say to him:

this weekend - DD is busy and cant see you but she will come see you on xxxday (if she agrees)

• let's all wait til you have moved house and contact has settled into a new routine, then we can sit as a family with a mediator and agree a way forward. this would be in Dds best interest.

if he insits on taking this to court now then you could ask for the hearing to be adjourned until such time as he has actually moved house. so - if a first hearing is listed and he hasnt even moved house yet - then you could submit something propsoing that the case is adjourned UNTIL he has actually moved house - as it all seems to be about him moving house to be nearer DD and have her more. and that it woudl make sense tfor tehre to eb a period of 3 or 6 months before shared residencce is considerd, for DD's sake.

you might have to go to the hearing with DD but i am sure you could prepare a strong statemnt saying that current arragemetns continue until eh moves house, then once he has moved, allow a few months before shared residency is considered. given ehr age and her feelings on the matter.

what is the timescale for him moving house?

@ Stressed74 :- Although your ex's Application has been filed at the court, it may take them a while to issue it, depending on how busy they are. So it may be a while yet before you receive it. I would think the court would probably just send it by post by Recorded Delivery or such like.

The timescale is when he sells his house, so it could be in a few months or it could take years for the house to sell.

So not only does he want this to happen but he doesn't know when it'll happen... He also works Monday to Friday and will have to leave house at 8 in morning and won't get back til bout 6pm, but this is okay apparently as his wife can look after my daughter.

@ melvin yeah you'd think so, but unless things have changed a random man came into my work and handed me an envelope with the papers in! According to his solicitor, same one he's using now, they said they took it to my work place as they had tried to hand deliver it to my house and I wasn't there!

The court will listen to you and your daughter, the contactvorder isn't just what he wants. Just because he asks for it doesn't mean it will be given to him.

Ask for a Cafcass officer to do a report and then you will at least know you and dd are being listened to.

Please don't worry, he is bullying you.

Melvin - why do you continually guess at things?

The papers will be handed to his solicitors who should arrange service. Ordinarily they'll serve by post, but OP is entitled to 14 days notice.

@ Stressed74 :- I have just discovered that the issued copies of the Application, ie with the court's seal on them, go to the Applicant's solicitor, or to the Applicant if acting in person, then can either be delivered by hand or first class post to the other party or parties. So you may receive your copy by random man again, or by post! Come to think of it, I think the above is standard for all types of applications to a court.

I think I'm having a panic attack! I've been thinking... What if he actually wants shared residence! There is no mention of this in the draft which apparently was what was submitted last week but is actually being submitted today!

Again will my daughters opinion matter, she's already going mental at the thought that she's going to be told when she has to visit him never mind officially having 2 homes!

She already has to have 2 separate lives, nothing can interfere with his time with her! Even when her beloved little cat was killed on the road he didn't want her told until she came back!

My heart is breaking but I guess this means he's winning already as i am well aware he hates me, so is my daughter cos he's told her, that surely making me hurt is probably what he wants the most.

And the only thing I have ever done to him is give birth to our daughter, I got told in October by his wife that he never wanted our daughter as he was 2 young and felt trapped that he couldn't carry on with his hobbies!
Now that broke my heart completely despite everything he has done I do not regret meeting him as I wouldn't have my daughter!

I just hope that the cafcass officer and judges can see through him and can give myself and my daughter some peace at last.

asking ehr to lvie with him one week on one week off may be interpreted as shared residence - "DD to live with the mother in week one and to live with the father in week two" .

or it could be "DD to live with the mother and to be made available for contact and overnight stays with the father on xxx days"

the lawyers will correct me i am sure...

but i think you jumping ahead - dont panic...they will take her views into account.

STRESSED74

DON'T

PANIC

That clear enough?

Stressed, my ex's solicitor told me 5 mins before we went into court of what he wanted in terms of contact, it was nothing at all like we had before, and was not what I thought appropriate.

I self represented and said that I wasn't happy as I hadn't had enough time to even consider what had been proposed and argued my corner, probably not very eloquently but I still did it. They agreed, the judge said he was not prepared to force me to accept something I was clearly not happy with.

He took the Cafcass report into account too, my kids were very young but their views counted.

So as Resolution says, don't panic please. Just because he wants it, doesn't mean he'll get it. And lets be honest, if he did and she refused to go, what can he do? Judges do realise that past a certain age you can't force a child to go.

@ DollyTwat et al :- I would say it is quite, if not very, common for the other side, often their barrister but could be like you their solicitor, to hand a litigant in person the other side's "position statement" about 15 minutes before the hearing! What they are meant to do is ensure you receive it about 3 days before the hearing! However, if challenged they will probably have some excuse like it had to be modified and they would have put it in the post but were worried it may not arrive in time, or such like. If necessary, the litigant in person could ask the judge to delay the hearing for an hour or so or even that it be re-arranged on another day, to allow time to read and consider the document. I'm sure the judge will be able to find plenty of other things to do and will probably not be too happy with the other side for causing the delay.

oh I didn't know it was a common tactic. Well it backfired. My case was rescheduled for 3 months time.

In fact we agreed the contact between us and didn't have to attend, but, I suspect that was because I represented myself the 'game' of costing me lots of money wasn't fun anymore