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Original poster

Change in contact order!

158 replies

Stressed74 · 09/03/2011 10:40

Hi, my ex husband has decided he is going to take me back to court to make sure that I allow him to see his daughter. I have never once stopped him from seeing his daughter and have happily agreed to him seeing her whenever family on his side have also wanted contact with her.
The current contact order states that he sees daughter for 3 days after his 6 at work, this is rotational so never the same days!
Over the years I have willingly changed the court order to allow continuation of contact when ex's shifts have changed.
The draft order has come through and he wants to change everything! He is planning to move to our town, he doesn't live that far away at mo about ten mins away, and when he does he wants the court to agree that our daughter has one week with him and one week with me etc, he's changing all holidays that have been agreed verbally.
Currently it was verbally agreed between us that he would see daughter every other weekend in line with his days off. This is perfect for us as a family, and incidentally is what I proposed in 2004 but he said he couldn't change his work patterns!
My daughter is almost 12 and has expressed that she does not want things to change and does not want to be forced into when she sees her dad, she has explained that to her dad who basically told her opinion didn't count and if that's what the judges decide then that's what will happen.
She has had this routine for 11 years, she has lived with me and my partner who has been fantastic at supporting daughter through everything and for the past 4 years has also lived with her little brother.
My daughter is saying that she does not want to see her father this weekend and based on emails and texts he has sent me and the fact he has admitted that he calls me names and slagged me off in front of our daughter I am deeply concerned about forcing her to go. I don't want to force my daughter but am confused over the legality of it technically not being in line with the contact order.
Also, do the courts genuinely listen to the children, ardbthey likely to agree that tearing a family apart is right just because his step children have all left home now? So confused!

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 09/03/2011 10:51

Yes they listened to my dd's who were 13 an 11 but not the boys who were 9 and 5.

You can't physically make a teen or pre teen go! How does it work? Does he pick up or do you drop off? I'd get him to collect so it's her refusing him with you not involved.

Original poster
Stressed74 · 09/03/2011 11:01

Myself, father, stepmother and my partner went to pub last night and daughter was there also. She told him then she didn't want to go at weekend, I have repeatedly told her I do not mind as I don't want her to think I would be angry if she went but she is adamant that she is not going. I have had texts thus morning off his wife saying they want daughter to go over tomorrow for family get together, also had another one saying that they'll collect daughter from school tomorrow and I can have her back on Monday!
I am getting really stressed but they are in position to afford a solicitor and I am not. I also can't get legal aid as my partner earns 2 much.
I keep being told by them, mainly the wife, that if I do not make daughter go then I am breaking the court order as verbal agreements take priority over what the court have put in black and White!

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 09/03/2011 11:05

I would let this be dealt with in court, but keep a diary/record of events.

Keep encouraging Dd to go when she's supposed to. I think courts are clues up enough to know kids this age want to do their own thing and will hopefully support her.

cestlavielife · 09/03/2011 11:09

blacka dn white order has priority i think...

-He is planning to move to our town, -

when he DOES move then you discuss new situation.

-when he does he wants the court to agree that our daughter has one week with him and one week with me etc,-

again - when eh moves - or when it is set in stone he ahs signed contract - then dicuss but WITH your daughter maybe a family mediation to see what would work.

  • he's changing all holidays that have been agreed verbally.-

he can ask - but you can say why it not practicable etc.

can you meet with a mediator?

Original poster
Stressed74 · 09/03/2011 11:09

So do I, I just thinks a shame that her own father won't listen to her, and that has made her angry. I have tried to be reasonable with her about it despite how I genuinely feel.

But I'm sure I will be made out to be some evil monster who won't let him see his daughter Angry

OP posts:
limpingbint · 09/03/2011 11:20

as verbal agreements take priority over what the court have put in black and White!

no this is not true at all - the black and white in a court situation is what really counts. Honestly it is worth going to court over if they are prepared to force your dd to go anyway - the child's best interests are what the court consider no the changeable nature of a parent's lifestyle. You have to protect your daughter and providing she is being reasonable (and it sounds as if she is) then you should do what she wishes. The sad thing about this is it is so damaging to their relationship with your daughter. They are being really bullying. Please do keep a journal of all these texts etc and of conversations etc because it will come in handy to construct a time line as it does get confused over time.

For what it's worth, you sound very reasonable and measured in your response and I cannot imagine that a court would overturn anything and go against a child's wishes.

Best wishes, it is horrible I know.

Original poster
Stressed74 · 09/03/2011 11:27

@cestlavielife yes it is all about when he sells his house and moves closer than he is...
He has told me that his solicitor has told him because I am so unreasonable then it has to go to court!
I have tried speaking directly to cafcass who basically said that because he was already issuing papers then they couldnt really help but would be called upon by the court to speak to my daughter.
He has actually changed all the holiday dates on the draft order!
We have sat and spoke about if and when he moves to our town and I actually think it would be great for daughter, but do not agree that a court should tell her that because her father after 12 years has decided that he can now move as his step children have all left home that she has to be taken away from what she has known for all her life and her little brother, bearing in mind he coul have very easily had a judge make the decision he wants when she was 2 or 5 or 8 but I feel that because she is old enough to look after herself then he wants more involvement!
I did have his wife tell me that he never wanted our daughter, he was 2 young and felt tied down... Seems at bit strange to me!

OP posts:
Original poster
Stressed74 · 09/03/2011 11:32

@limpingbit thank you for your comments, I am going to see a solicitor later today, it will only be a one off visit at 120 plus vat!

You are not the first person to tell me to write everything down, I am going to get a diary and start writing away!

I have had to tell him that he needs to speak to our daughter as up until last night he had not spoken to her for 10 days!

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 09/03/2011 12:23

i get this too - "you are being unreasonable" etc - is hard but best is to try and see it dispassionately..court arena is more secure and leaves to an independent judge to decide (along wtih CAFCASS invovlement) - so deicsions taken out of your hands...this should be good in a way....

let it go to court then daughter wills ee you doing everythig to put ehr views across - and ehr views will eb consdiered.

if he is asking court to order her to suddenly go live with him 50 per cent of time on one week on one week off basis then she is likely to have strong views on that and will be able to air them. - stability, her life, home work issues etc... you will be able to support her to figure out her reasons.

of course maybe at some point she will want to and you have to accept that - but at 12 it is for him to act reasonably and get his new home sorted first, then build up visits, over time - then maybe she does evetually wish to spend more time there - -but not on a "you have to do this now" way...

does he pay child mainteance?
could he be thinking financally it will be cheaper if she resides more with him?

Original poster
Stressed74 · 09/03/2011 12:40

:D odd that you should mention that!!! Yeah he pays approximately 7 per day for her... According to him my partner who has been with my daughter since she was 2 should pay the for my daughter and ex should contribute!!!
I believe it has a lot to do with money, as last time we were in court in 2005 literally within 2weeks of the court order being issued the child support agency sent me a letter saying that it had been re evaluated and I had to pay him back just under a 1000 pound!!!
He has already said that she cannot go on school trips in the future, they are going to Vienna and America and he refuses already to pay half, he claims he doesn't have money and that even if he did he still wouldn't let her go as he never went on trips like that and she's a spoilt brat! Nice...
So yeah, after 12 years it's hard to believe that it's also not got something to do with money, as the reason he's selling his house is because it's crippling them, his words!

OP posts:
melvinscomment · 09/03/2011 12:56

@ Stressed74 :- From what you say above it looks like your ex husband has already applied, or is about to apply, to the court for a new and different contact order, requesting that your and his daughter spends one week with you and one with him. I think what will happen is the judge will look at what your daughter wants, what you and your ex want, what the CAFCASS person (social worker) says, then decide what to do. The bottom line being that the judge will have to decide whether or not what your ex is proposing is reasonable and if not what is reasonable. If you and your ex can do some deal I would think the judge would be very willing to agree with that!

Original poster
Stressed74 · 09/03/2011 13:02

@Melvinscomment yes he has applied, when we met in the pub last night he was confused that I hadn't received the papers from the court yet.
I have told him again last night and in the past that I have no problem with him seeing our daughter more, however think what he wants is unreasonable. I have said that if daughter wants to go to his she is free to do so providing we don't have plans obviously. This is not good enough so I have tried but he wants a judge to make the decision that our daughter has to live with him weekly now!

OP posts:
melvinscomment · 09/03/2011 13:02

PS That would be a "consent order", ie both parties have agreed to the proposed order which is then issued by the court.

Original poster
Stressed74 · 09/03/2011 13:05

Also, we have had our house valued to move and it was going to be further north following my partners work, if a judge says my daughter has to be split does that mean I can't move anywhere?
Even turned offer of going to Oz down 3 years ago because I didn't want to take daughter away from her dad...how parents are different!

OP posts:
melvinscomment · 09/03/2011 13:06

PPS Make that "all parties", because your daughter will also be party to the proceedings.

cestlavielife · 09/03/2011 14:22

"if a judge says my daughter has to be split" i think you are getting ahead of yourself - unless your daughter is very keen on this idea then wait until the proposal is actually in front of you and discuss with her, help her come up with her reasons why she wishes to stay where she has been lviinvg with you for past 10 years.

and why right now she just wants (o doesnt want) regular pattern of visits with dad.

that you happy to review this after 6 or 9 or 12 months...

hard to see a judge forcing a 12 year old to suddenly live 50/50 after 10 years of only visits

Resolution · 09/03/2011 15:58

Children are seldom parties to s8 (private law) proceedings - and wouldn't be in your case.

Stick to your plan to move. so long as it's not motivated by a desire to come between your daughter and her father, the court cannot stop you moving, but contact arrangements would have to change.

melvinscomment · 09/03/2011 16:05

@ Resolution :- I think you need to read the details again.

Resolution · 09/03/2011 16:44

What part should I read again?

melvinscomment · 09/03/2011 17:12

@ Resolution :- The parts which say it is the husband who is moving closer and either says or indicates that there is already a contact order, which the husband wants to replace with a different one.

GypsyMoth · 09/03/2011 17:15

he could in teory,stop you moving away fullstop op by prohibited steps order.

Magicjamas · 09/03/2011 17:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

GypsyMoth · 09/03/2011 18:14

*theory!

melvinscomment · 09/03/2011 19:00

@ Resolution :- Have you re-read this thread yet?

DollyTwat · 09/03/2011 20:19

Stressed74 Cafcass interviewed both of my dc, separately and alone to find out why they didn't want to see their father. They were 5 & 9 at the time. Their views were certainly taken into account and dictated the speed at which the contact resumed.

Also, my nephew who was 13 at the time, made his views known and is now living with his father.

So, if your DD can put her view across well enough, I don't see any reason her wishes shouldn't be taken into account. In fact I think it's called a 'wishes and feelings' report that Cafcass do (I think my solicitor requested it).

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