Change in contact order!

[Stressed74]

Hi, my ex husband has decided he is going to take me back to court to make sure that I allow him to see his daughter. I have never once stopped him from seeing his daughter and have happily agreed to him seeing her whenever family on his side have also wanted contact with her.
The current contact order states that he sees daughter for 3 days after his 6 at work, this is rotational so never the same days!
Over the years I have willingly changed the court order to allow continuation of contact when ex's shifts have changed.
The draft order has come through and he wants to change everything! He is planning to move to our town, he doesn't live that far away at mo about ten mins away, and when he does he wants the court to agree that our daughter has one week with him and one week with me etc, he's changing all holidays that have been agreed verbally.
Currently it was verbally agreed between us that he would see daughter every other weekend in line with his days off. This is perfect for us as a family, and incidentally is what I proposed in 2004 but he said he couldn't change his work patterns!
My daughter is almost 12 and has expressed that she does not want things to change and does not want to be forced into when she sees her dad, she has explained that to her dad who basically told her opinion didn't count and if that's what the judges decide then that's what will happen.
She has had this routine for 11 years, she has lived with me and my partner who has been fantastic at supporting daughter through everything and for the past 4 years has also lived with her little brother.
My daughter is saying that she does not want to see her father this weekend and based on emails and texts he has sent me and the fact he has admitted that he calls me names and slagged me off in front of our daughter I am deeply concerned about forcing her to go. I don't want to force my daughter but am confused over the legality of it technically not being in line with the contact order.
Also, do the courts genuinely listen to the children, ardbthey likely to agree that tearing a family apart is right just because his step children have all left home now? So confused!

@ Stressed74 :- Maybe you can do a deal with your ex by saying when he moves nearer you don't mind your daughter visiting him more often on a flexible basis, but one week with you and one with him is too rigid an arrangement and too big a jump from the existing arrangement. Something like that.

basically told her opinion didn't count and if that's what the judges decide then that's what will happen.

erh no the judge will be mightly pissed off as he wants your dd to decide what happens,

write to your ex and stop fanny about with verbal

Dear ex

dd wants this to happen, thats good for me to hope you can accomodate

ok

bye OP

I have spoken to solicitor who has confirmed that I will not be breaching court order as the current contact that was verbally agreed is not the contact order, so I can sleep easy knowing that it was just a way of trying to intimidate me.
My ex partner is well aware of daughters feelings she has told him face to face and in front of me and didn't take a blind bit of notice. He told her that when she speaks to cafcass she can explain how she feels and the judge will make the decision.
I have to wait for the court papers to arrive now and take it from there! Oh... And also deal with the fact daughter is still refusing to go to his this weekend despite trying to talk to her about it.

@Melvinscomment I have already suggested that when he moves closer that my daughter can go see him whenever she wants... But for some reason he wants it in black and White but then has the nerve to say that it's just a framework can be changed by agreement!

sit back and wait, he will not be looked upon well if it gets to court

My ex does this, takes me to court for a contact order he doesn't really want and has no intention of keeping to. I had to represent myself in the end as I simply couldn't afford a solicitor (I work and he gets legal aid).

The contact order is there as something that you have to fall back on when your verbal agreements fall apart. It's useful to have what you want in writing, even if you do change it later, as that is what the court will be working from. If you stick to what you have now, you are not in breach of it.

Self representing is no fun, but I do think that they allow for the fact you aren't a solicitor and in my case meant I could interrupt and say my bit simply because I didn't know the correct procedurs. If you can get another solicitor appt and ask what you need to say to get Cafcass involved. The court won't want to order something that you are very opposed to, especially if you don't have a solicitor.

@ Stressed74 :- What your ex is probably saying is although there is and will be a court order, you and he are not obliged to comply with it as long as you both agree not to comply with it! Anyway if you both agree to some new preferably flexible arrangement, that could be put in writing and issued by the court as a "consent (contact) order". So he would have something in black and white.

Then what is the point of a contact order then if it's just a framework? Bearing in mind he sees daughter whenever he asks anyway! I don't have the money to keep going back and fro to court because somethings come up in his world and he wants to change things... Does this not make a mockery of the subject of contact orders as they can be thrown about when arguments happen

Melvin......some flexibility is required between parents. But this is stretching it too far!

@ Stressed74 et al :- Actually, it is correct that court orders should be obeyed and or followed until set aside. So this also applies to contact orders. But if the parents both agree to do something different for a while I don't think anyone is going to complain. As regards your ex, I think it is correct to say that he will only be able to argue that the contact arrangements should be changed whenever there is a significant change in his or your circumstances, eg him moving nearer to where you and your daughter live. The simplest thing to do may be to agree that a new contact order is drawn up essentially the same as the old one but allocating more contact time to the father. If so that could be a "consent order" rubber stamped and issued by the court.

Like I've said I have never never stopped him from seeing daughter whenever he has wanted, I have always swapped and changed things in my world to make sure the contact has remained. I can't understand why after 12 years he has suddenly decided he wants to be in her life 50 % of the time now!
He could've moved closer years ago when he sold our marital home and moved in with his now wife and her children, he could've asked for the 50/50 at any point in the last 12 years but hasn't! He'll say that he knew I'd never agree...but if a judge is going to left to make decision now then they could've also made it at any point in last 12 years! It's a bit of a coincidence that a. Daughter is now of age where she is pretty much able to care for herself if she has 2! B. He is crippled money wise! C. All 3 of his step children have now all left home!

@melvin. I have always gone along with anything that he has asked, I on the other hand have only asked for a change literally probably about 3 times and that was so holidays abroad could be booked! I'd like to point out he only lives 15 minutes away depending on traffic! Our daughter does not want this to happen, our daughter has refused point blank to go and see him this weekend, I have tried to reason with her and she is genuinely not interested! I think when a father sits over the table from his daughter who tells him how she feels and what she wants to ve told her opinion does not count and the judge will decide says an awful lot.

He's having contact as it is.

If he thinks trying to force a 12 year old to do something she doesn't want to do is a good thing, then he's a tit.

Some things are not for compromising on. you are doing the right thing. Just meet his application head on (if he issues it) and good luck.

@ Stressed74 :- Fair enough, you could tell your ex that he isn't going to get much if any extra contact just by moving from 15 mins away to 5 mins away, if he wants to go to court that is up to him, you will attend court as a "litigant in person" and have no intention of paying a solicitor and barrister to represent you! Otherwise, you could say you'll agree to a small increase in contact time to avoid either of you having to argue your case in court.

I have told him that I don't mind our daughter seeing her father whenever she wants 2 when he moves to this town! I told him back in October when he said they were thinking about moving this way that I thought it was a great idea for our daughter! Little did I know the extreme he would want to take it, his wife has told us that it's going to cost them 5k as it'll include a day at court! They are prepared to go through with this as he honestly believes that a judge will allow this to happen, when contact order was put into place in 05 he had solicitor and barrister, I had solicitor who cost me a fortune!
This time I have no intention of having either with me! I am confident enough that I will be okay as I genuinely am on my daughters side, have her best interests at heart and also know the truth and if this turns out to go against my wishes and daughters wishes then there is something seriously wrong with the court system....

The courts will always favour the status quo re. contact as long as it is regular - which it is

He will never ever get one week on and one week off unless she wants it - it is a bi change for her and the courts will not sanction it unless it is in her best interests, which it isn't

I suspect your are right about this having a financial motivation, with 50/50 care he would not be liable for maintenance.

Call his bluff and face him out in court, it is quite an intrusive process for him if cafcass are involved and they will know parents often try this for not altogether the child's best interests.

Be cool. this is not going to happen unless dd wants it.

@ Stressed74 :- It just occurred to me that your ex's main argument may be that daughter couldn't previously spend more time with him due to step-kids being there, but they are not going to be living in his new house. This argument may have more merit than any moving closer argument!

Nothing is going to usurp the right of the child to say no to more contact - at least not in this case.

My daughter gets on very well with her step brothers and sisters. They bought the house they are looking to sell especially because it had plenty of bedrooms to accommodate the 4 children having bedrooms each. The youngest step brother is 18. But I am interested to know how you think that he may try using the fact he has step children who lived with him which is why our daughter couldn't have lived with him as he wants now previously? I have already thought about that,amongst other things, and he may say that as the 3step children were all at school he didn't want to move them, and their dad sees them as often as poss because he lives round the corner...my argument would be...compromise! Daughter was 3 when he moved to town where his wife already lived, he could've said that they moved halfway between the 2 towns! But if you have different thought I'd appreciate hearing it. Thank you

Just opened letter from ex husbands solicitor with acknowledgement of letter I had to send regarding daughter not wanting to visit her father this weekend. They are still saying I am breaching contact agreement, and it is not acceptable that daughter will not be going over this weekend! I am to encourage daughter her to visit this weekend at his request...
Also, they have forwarded on the application to the court for a variation order, incidentally, they wrote and told me it was applied for last week, also ex and his wife said it should've been issued on Tuesday, talk about trying to bully someone...absolutely shocking!

stressed8 - very apt name if you spend your time worrying about what your ex might say if* he actually applies to court.

He might say a million and one things. No point worrying about any of them unless and until he 1.issues in court and 2.sets out his case.

Seriously.

You'll worry yourself in to an early grave.

sorry - cocked up all my bold type

Our posts crossed. - At least you can see what he's saying now.

What's his case?

Just write to tell them that you are encouraging and supporting your daughter, but that she is very particular in stating when she does and doesn't want to go for contact, and you are not prepared to force her, given her age.

Also I'd point out that the more he tries to force her to go against her wishes the more he risks alienating her.

stressed- the comment about step kids etc is clealry off the track...dont worry about that., if he tells court that is his reason for wanting to see more of ehr now i am sure it wont look good -ie that he has put step kids needs over heres.

anyway - as reoslutoin said - jsut wait til you get date of court eharing to preapre your case.

and yes jsut say "i am encouraging her to go but given ehr age i cannot force her"
fact and facts. that is all.

dont bring in words like lalienation - or he will s tart accusing you of "parental alienation"e etc..

@Resolution... The letter I have just had says that they today are applying for the variation order, which is that daughter spends week with him week with me etc.

They told me last week it was applied for and they would tell me when the first hearing was, my ex husband and his both told me I should've been served with the paperwork on Tuesday just gone! So I have sat for 2 days worrying about the door knocking as the last time in 04 they were served they came to my work and hand delivered them to me whilst I was sat on a checkout... I never went back to work their again as I was so embarrassed!

So basically the solicitor lied last week, and not too much of a shock but ex lied aswell. Fee like a kid being bullied!

So I will have to sit and wait again!

As for encouraging daughter I have tried every angle even the it won't upset me if you go you know, but nothings worked if anything it makes her angry with me!