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Original poster

Change in contact order!

158 replies

Stressed74 · 09/03/2011 10:40

Hi, my ex husband has decided he is going to take me back to court to make sure that I allow him to see his daughter. I have never once stopped him from seeing his daughter and have happily agreed to him seeing her whenever family on his side have also wanted contact with her.
The current contact order states that he sees daughter for 3 days after his 6 at work, this is rotational so never the same days!
Over the years I have willingly changed the court order to allow continuation of contact when ex's shifts have changed.
The draft order has come through and he wants to change everything! He is planning to move to our town, he doesn't live that far away at mo about ten mins away, and when he does he wants the court to agree that our daughter has one week with him and one week with me etc, he's changing all holidays that have been agreed verbally.
Currently it was verbally agreed between us that he would see daughter every other weekend in line with his days off. This is perfect for us as a family, and incidentally is what I proposed in 2004 but he said he couldn't change his work patterns!
My daughter is almost 12 and has expressed that she does not want things to change and does not want to be forced into when she sees her dad, she has explained that to her dad who basically told her opinion didn't count and if that's what the judges decide then that's what will happen.
She has had this routine for 11 years, she has lived with me and my partner who has been fantastic at supporting daughter through everything and for the past 4 years has also lived with her little brother.
My daughter is saying that she does not want to see her father this weekend and based on emails and texts he has sent me and the fact he has admitted that he calls me names and slagged me off in front of our daughter I am deeply concerned about forcing her to go. I don't want to force my daughter but am confused over the legality of it technically not being in line with the contact order.
Also, do the courts genuinely listen to the children, ardbthey likely to agree that tearing a family apart is right just because his step children have all left home now? So confused!

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 11/03/2011 12:06

melvin, it has nothing to do with LIP or not - my exP is LIP and has always had everything from my solicitor in good time.

he however, will send a text message with his position one hour before the court hearing "i refuse to come because i dont agree with your position"

or flounce in with a letter from GP claiming he too ill to understand what is going on . .

it is nothing to do with havng or not a solciitor but tactics by someone determined to make it awkward for the other person and to refuse to use the system appropriately.

i have a solciitor becuse i work very day, struggle to keep on top of kids/housework/everything and time is money... but frankly, i am becoming inclined to self rep just to get the leeway that he gets...

court works both ways - if you have a reasonable point of view - it should help you.

if you have a nonsensical viewpoint it wont.

melvinscomment · 11/03/2011 12:30

@ cestlavielife :- I would say being handed docs a few minutes before a hearing and any other underhand tactics often have quite a lot to do with being a litigant in person, ie any lawyers on the other side may well try something they wouldn't try against other lawyers! But I agree that any clued-up litigants in person could try the same type of tricks!

Resolution · 11/03/2011 12:36

Believe me when I say that lawyers receive documents last minute as much as anyone. Perhaps it doesn't faze us as much as LIPs though.

DollyTwat · 11/03/2011 12:54

When I have had a solicitor, there is always at least an hour of discussion that goes on between both sides. The appearance before the judge or magistrates seems to be more of a rubber stamping of what's been agreed. So, when you're a LIP there can't be any of that.

Which does leave you to argue your case in the court room, without sounding like a fishwife

melvinscomment · 11/03/2011 13:06

@ DollyTwat :- I think you will agree it is best if both parents can reach some agreement before the hearing, then that can be written up as a "consent order" and essentially rubber stamped by the judge and issued by the court. That is essentially what happens, or can happen, in the one hour meeting you describe before the hearing. But it is of course a lot cheaper if the one hour meeting isn't necessary!

DollyTwat · 11/03/2011 21:54

of course melvin

It doesn't sound as if stressed is able to do this though, not your fault stressed but your ex doesn't sound as if he wants to hear reasonable arguments. The judge will though.

I'm sure that my ex just wanted the contact order to give to the csa to reduce his payments. However, I did keep a diary of when he had them, and gave that to the csa.

Original poster
Stressed74 · 12/03/2011 00:34

I don't know what he's up to and cannot understand it at all! Struggling to understand why after 12years he's suddenly got our daughters best interests at heart and wants her 50% of the time!

I don't believe for a split second it's to spend more time with her! Especially after hearing only yesterday off daughter that when she goes to his, every other weekend, he goes off out leaving her with her 18 year old step brother or taking her to her step mothers sisters house to be cared for!!!

But I'm sure when the papers are served they will be full of rubbish and lies... He's a good liar...bet you can't guess what he does for a living?! Another reason why I'm worried!

OP posts:
melvinscomment · 12/03/2011 08:03

@ Stressed74 et al :- Because your ex's application to the court has been prepared by legal professionals it is quite possible, or even likely, it will contain as little detail as possible. If so be prepared to receive the details (aka rubbish and lies) about 15 minutes before the hearing!

CarGirl · 12/03/2011 18:55

He could be planning 50/50 residency to get the child benefit and any child tax credit - depends if their income is low enough to qualify.

It's just that you mentioned they have less money now and no longer having any children living with them..................................

cestlavielife · 13/03/2011 00:32

stressed - you will have a chance to counter his rubbish and lies with clear facts.
your dd will be able to give her views.

it isnt nice and it is stressful - but just focus on telling it as it is clearly and actually adn making sure your dd get s the chance to get her views across.

one family therapist (also a faily alwyer pvsly) gave me good advice when i was worrying what if... over court etc - that the outcome is out of your hands. what judge decides will be what s/he decides.
what you can control is the information you (and DD) present to the judge so that you sound reasonable.

eg slowly build up more contact if DD wants but that it is againt her best interests and her feelings (and could cause her meotional distress) to suddenly have to live 50 % time with dad.

you could also take her to GP so she can express her concerns about this possible outcome, so it is recorded. that it is causing her some stress thinking about it.

cestlavielife · 13/03/2011 00:32

emotional distress

notasolicitor · 13/03/2011 10:55

Stressed74 If you and your ex can reach some agreement about contact you can probably get a public access barrister to do the paperwork for you and get an appropriate order issued by the court, without you even needing to go to the court! www.barcouncil.org.uk/about/find-a-barrister/public-access-directory/

Resolution · 13/03/2011 11:04

Wrong. Are you really Melvin?

notasolicitor · 13/03/2011 11:09

Resolution What's wrong with what I suggested to Stressed74?

Mamaz0n · 13/03/2011 11:25

yes i suspect he is, Resolution

Resolution · 13/03/2011 11:32

As I said to Melvin, I'm not here to educate 3rd parties who come on to threads started by others.

But I suspect you're aware of that already.

notasolicitor · 13/03/2011 12:16

Stressed74 I don't know what Resolution thinks is wrong with what I suggested. Maybe he's thinking I should have said your barrister and your ex's barrister will have to agree the wording of the order? Anyway, it would put in words the agreement between you and your ex. In which case I don't think there would be any need for either of you to attend the court.

MadMommaMemoo · 13/03/2011 16:11

John Alexander Melvin Hemming

Original poster
Stressed74 · 13/03/2011 17:01

I wont have a solicitor of any kind...LOL
I earn too much money for legal aid but not enough to cover the fees so will deal with his day in court when it happens.

My ex husband is not the most agreeable person in the world...his way or no way basically.

So I will just grin and bear things til I recieve the papers full of rubbish and start worrying then!

OP posts:
GypsyMoth · 13/03/2011 17:04

melvins thread has been deleted!!

Original poster
Stressed74 · 19/03/2011 21:54

How long does it take for papers to be served? I was told by exs sol that she had submitted them last Thursday! Is there anyway i can get it heard quickly aswell???

OP posts:
Resolution · 19/03/2011 22:54

The court are supposed to turn around the paperwork in 3 days. The only rule about service is that you must have 14 days notice of the first hearing. If you know the court, ting them and they'll tell you if it's been issued.

Resolution · 19/03/2011 22:55

You could also ring them!

funnyperson · 20/03/2011 08:30

Stressed74 here is my laypersons twopennyworth:

  1. Your daughter is changing and growing up. Being a teen her needs and wants will change constantly and at the last minute and include the desire to be with any parent at all less and less as time goes on.

2.However there will be midnight chauffering at short notice and hormonal boyfriends wanting underage sex in the offing. Dads come in very useful at this point.

  1. Therefore aim to keep exH on side as much as possible.
  1. If it goes to court then as long as she is seeing her dad as much as she wants, the court has the option to make no order and that is good because it allows for flexibility, eliminates the sword of damocles effect and reduces the potential for time wasting court actions in future.
  1. If it goes to court then the court can appoint a kindly person to ask her if she is seeing her dad as much as she wants. Does her dad pick up up or do you drop her off?
  1. He probably does want joint residence for financial and human reasons. Tricky. But I dont think he should be using contact proceedings to get it. I think its better for a young adolescent girl to mainly be with her mum. Your daughter probably thinks so too. This will come out in court.

But thats just my opinion. Good luck and look after yourself- whatever happens try and keep your home calm and welcoming for your daughter.

funnyperson · 20/03/2011 08:42

I should add the obvious in my view which is that the mother and daughter relationship is really really important as girls go through their teens- you will continue to be your daughter's best friend. She will talk all the time, she needs support on friends, boyfriends, clothes, shoes, make up, hair, food, school, anything and everything.
Dads are really important too but I don't think they need to be there every day for daughters like mum does.