Chat thread 5 🐥🍲(Mumsnets could do better cont…)

[EllaDisenchanted]

@stomachamelon @humdingerydoo @diamond82 @missconductUS @quantumbutterfly @comedycook @25milesfromhome @olderglaswegianlivingindevon @beretinparis @edithstourton @sharonellis @towerofsong @purplechrayne

I’ve tagged a few people to start off the next thread. Please tag anyone else I’ve missed.
I felt bad calling it Mumsnet could do better 😬

I quite rate Kemi in terms of what she's said to date but as much as I appreciate her support, I'm a bit nervous because of the Conservatives previous behaviour (so many issues where they said one thing and did the opposite). On the other hand, at least she's saying the right thing, whereas Labour always seems to find a way to kick us when we're down.

I just wanted to share some positivity within the media, as it makes a change to find an ally. I had heard about the Shelagh Fogarty show in the afternoons and started to listen. It is a refreshing change to find a broadcaster who is prepared to devote fairly substantial amounts of time to covering antisemitism within the UK, a proper understanding of the events of October 7 and its implications for Jews and a balanced view of the conflict in the Middle East. It is clear from her comments that she is receiving lots of negative feedback for her stance. Unfortunately this is not surprising, but she is definitely worth a listen.

The thread about Why are Jews facing persecution in the UK is very depressing from the very first page.

Can you link it please. Or give title please.

That was the title - here’s the link - https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/in_the_news/5523904-why-are-jewish-people-facing-persecution-in-the-uk?page=6

sorry for not linking in my first post.

Thank you, going to read now.
Did read last page, will a couple.
Why as the Ukraine war has been happening has there not been loads of attacks on Russian people because of Putin or just being of Russian descent etc.
We know why, because antisemitism is as old as time! And for me shows is always just under the surface.
Then the cracks happen and here we are again!
sorry if I’m not making sense.

Oh god 😖 I just took a look and had to exit quickly (blood pressure!). Arguing on MN sadly doesn't change the fact that these people walk among us...

I know, I don’t why I looked first thing in the morning!

And @Cparrot exactly, that’s just simple common sense but seems too much for a lot of people.

Has anyone ever spoken to or heard from Mumsnet about how they approach antisemitism and monitoring threads (beyond just being referred back to their talk guidelines)?

So much of the antisemitism is subtle/based on tropes which often seem to get missed and I understand Mumsnet's need to allow open debate. However, taking the below thread as an example, its portrayed as an innocent question but quickly goes on to suggest the two Jewish victims are being given special treatment because they are Jewish. People have corrected this interpretation but the casual viewer (or someone already holding certain views) may miss this.

I'd like to see Mumsnet take a more active role in managing this (possibly by noting key facts at the start).

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5524418-met-police-are-erasing-the-third-victim-of-the-golders-green-stabbing

I reported many obvious dog whistle type posts in that thread and just got back it doesn’t break the guidelines type thing.

there are several users that appear on every single Jewish related thread in the main boards without fail, but skirt under the radar with their blatant antisemitism as it’s masked politely enough just enough to not break the guidelines, it’s a joke, mumsnet just doesn’t seem to care.

I’m not very educated on how Mumsnet is moderated but is it worth us contacting them and explaining the situation? And requesting they have someone on their team who fully understands? That could be a full time job though!

Yes, I have. I have asked them what training they have had in terms of recognising antisemitism and suggested they ask the CST to give them training. In terms of the tropes & dog whistles they dont seem to be able to recognise, but also the cumulative effect of the relentless barrage of threads about Israel and Gaza. They arent interested, leaving Jews and their allies to actively police the threads. I think MN should do that.

Same old story isn’t it. Should we tag them in this thread and ask them for a response on this? Again I’m not too familiar with how Mumsnet works but I think I’ve seen that on other threads.

CST would be great and I think CST would be eager to work with them to help as they do so much online work. MN mods do not seem to “get” the more subtle stuff that are like you said the tropes and the dog whistle stuff, it’s frustrating reporting some of the blatant stuff and it coming back as oh I didn’t break the guidelines.

@Pastelpoppy Please do not tag anyone. We do not want controversy in this Jewish area. In fact, there has kind of been an influx of non-Jews of late and it is diluting the experience we have tried to have here.

I have spoken to CST in the past. But of course they are run off their feet at the moment.

Absolutely wouldn’t tag anyone without getting the boards advice first. As I said I’m not that familiar with how Mumsnet works, certainly do want to invite more controversy.

Definitely not. FYI, this area is for Jewish Mumsnetters. It was established so we would have somewhere in Mumsnet to focus on our concerns and also to give each other succor during these difficult times. It's like the Black Mumsnetters area. I would never post there, not being black, and I am shocked that other posters don't somehow realize that they shouldn't either.

I’ve reported a couple of threads today. I’m just referred to MN guidelines and told that they are not breaking any MS rules.

The non-Jewish mumsnetters that I've seen post have all done so in support of Jewish mumsnetters and often queried whether it is okay for them to do so. I've only ever seen people confirm that they were welcome to post.

I, for one, welcome anyone trying to educate themselves on the issues or offer support (its typically only on the threads about antisemitism).

I've dropped mumsnet an email just to see if its something they'd be open to. I'd at least feel a bit better if they recognise its something they're not on top of.

I apologise for posting my support. I didn’t realise, so I apologise again. And I won’t post again.

I think it's better for allies to post in the main areas of Mumsnet so more people will see that people support us. Of course, we Jews post there, too, but are often dismissed

I don't agree that supportive non-Jews shouldn't post here. It's been refreshing to see support from the outside. Classic "two Jews, three opinions" kind of moment.

All the support on those threads yesterday has been incredibly appreciated. I know about half of the posters refusing to let others get away with minimising antisemitism are not Jewish. It makes us feel less alone ❤️ And in my opinion, the same goes for posts on this board.

Also in my opinion, is that the problem with the faux naive posts yesterday where the OPs don't themselves say anything overtly antisemitic is that they're saying just enough to have others complete their sentences. So they themselves can plead innocence, despite having actively encouraged and manipulated others into making antisemitic statements / remarks / accusations. They're creating the antisemitic atmosphere but they've been clever enough about it so they can't themselves be accused of making antisemitic remarks. It's very similar to how the march organisers operate. The official line is never "we hate Jews". They encourage others to do the overt hating of Jews for them.

That is why I wish they would post in the main area. Better representation because they aren’t Jewish. For me, I have found our little world supportive and helpful but not as much anymore. No one is saying non-Jews can’t post here but I wonder why they want to.