The mind numbing boredom of infertility III

[icy121]

Are you Barren & Bored? You've come to the right place!

We do: swearing, empathy, bitterness, tears, sardonic laughter, glittery shit and mocking idiots who know nothing jon snow.

We don't do: baby dust, relentless positivity, "u ok hun", "I had a friend who..", pithy advice or sentimentality generally.

Previous threads 1 and 2.

Now that you've got all that down, welcome to the barren ghetto.

Really gutted for you, fourpaws. What a blow. Do you have plans for the rest of the day? Can you take some time off to do whatever you need to do to look after yourself? It's so fucking shit.

delurking to say i hear ya potatoes i have never been a bitter or jealous person in my life but infertility seems to have brought out the worst in me. One of my oldest dearest friends has been single forever and has just met a man and instead of being pleased for her all I can think is she is probably going to instadiff at 40 ffs what is wrong with me?! Dh and I walk past families on the street muttering 'yeh three children? you greedy fuckers' even watching David Camerons speech the other day we were focused on his three kids - three? what the fuck?! how can anyone manage three?!
bip sorry your trip to serum didnt work. theres nothing to say except you are my infertility hero. Doubt that helps.
fourpaws so so sorry, what a horrendous thing to go through. Are you NHS? Is going private an option? Natural cycle might be the way forward. I have abysmal amh/afc but have managed to get 5 eggs over three natural cycles (zero drugs before EC) 3 of which made perfect embryos on day 3. 1 chemical, one bfn and waiting to see the final result. might be a better option for you although apologies if this isnt relevant

Ah four I cross postedand I missed your update. So so so sorry. Take care of yourself. Grrr at the bloody universe today. When you're ready to think about it, I would say that there is still hope. Is this an NHS clinic? It sounded a bit like they were offering one size fits all approach. Long protocol especially isn't always suitable for low AMH. Am thinking of you.

Yes. Nhs. Meant to get two chances, ha. They said they wouldn't even bother with another as no point. Got to see consultant on first August to be discharged.

Oh fourpaws, that's gutting. It seems so cruel of them to give up on your behalf! Any chance the consultant may have another plan or more suggestions? Please be kind to yourself in such a difficult time. You

Oops, cut off. You deserve lots of kindness because this deal is epically shit.

I don't know what to do or think. I'm sat staring into space. I feel sick.

Can someone tell me what to do. Not now but can people help me for the appointment with my consultant. What do I need to ask. What else can I try. Why is this happening to me.

Fourpaws, there is so much knowledge and expertise around here, I'm sure there are wonderful women who can help you with this. We're all behind you.

Oh ladies you are all so lovely. I feel like the party pooper, I just burst the bubble of warmth and optimism and made everyone feel shit. Sorry about that.

fourpaws I'm so sorry to hear your news, and it was you that asked after me and I came on to rant and now this! I'm sorry for how you're feeling now, and I hope you have someone with you. And Sammy my post was very badly timed right after your announcement. I hope your bleeding turns out to be implantation. I didn't mean to make you feel bad. Just to clarify one thing: no envy here, I don't envy anyone the journey they're on, everyone has had a shit time that they don't deserve. I watched the news today and realised how lucky I am and I wouldn't swap or trade with anyone. It's just all very self indulgent and the selfish streak comes out when I hear good news from others. I just turn it around to be about me. Very selfish.

Bip that's another devastating update from you. You sound exhausted. Athens sounds like a mindfuck. I know the panicky feeling you describe. Everyone else approaches 40 with some insignificant worries about waistlines and wrinkles. You're looking at a truly life-defining moment. How are you for support? How's your DH? Have you got anyone IRL who's out the other side, and is that still where you think you want to be?

I called my clinic last week. I realise the post-cycle debrief I had was rubbish, I learnt nothing and came away without a plan, plus it was mid-miscarriage so I wasn't really focussing. I'm going to see them next week. I also booked to see the counsellor, although she has a seven week wait for even the first appointment, which shows you the value they put on free counselling vs. paid for treatment. Maybe she can give me some perspective.

To anyone and everyone I've put off saying anything positive lest it unleashes my rage - please come back! I have learnt so much from this thread, including what questions to ask the bastard arrogant doctors and the best put down for bastard insensitive 'friends' and colleagues. I don't want to kill this amazing source of support.

Potatoes, you don't have to apologise to me. I'm just sorry that you (and anyone else) has to feel like this.

Fourpaws - I'm so sorry for your news too, echoing the others, would you be able to afford a private consultation to see if they might be able to help you more?

Bleeding had become red this morning, with clots. I've been in for a hcg blood test this afternoon and results will be available tomorrow. I've been a complete mess all day, but just trying to relax on the sofa.

Thanks everyone.

Sammy my heart goes out to you. Huge hugs from my sofa.

What a shitty shitty day.

My cake didn't recover, I took it outside just before in my Jammies and smashed it everywhere for the chickens to eat. It did not make me feel better and now there is no cake. If anyone asks me why I might stab them with a fork. Mum doesn't even like stupid cake.

four I'm a fellow low AMHer. (5.3) my clinic told me that the EC usually reflects either your AMH or your AFC (mine was 13 which apparently is ok ish) my cycle resulted in 6 mature eggs which reflected my AMH (unfortunately) but they are still planning another cycle. I dreaded them suggesting donor eggs etc but they seemed quite optimistic for another go. So what I'm saying is, please try not to give up all hope. When the panic subsides and you can think more clearly you might feel able to come up with a plan and of course we are all here to help. Between us we can devise a list of questions for you to ask.
Ps, sorry about the cake too! I bet that really was the icing on the cake (excuse the pun)

bip lovely to hear from you despite the circumstances, you really are one of the strongest (virtual) people I know and at then end of the day, you have done absolutely everything possible to reach your dreams and I'm sorry you still haven't got there.

sammy I'm holding my breath for you. X

Nothing to report from me. Day 22 and AF is on its way already. Apart from that, life is currently as dull as dish water.

Oh fourpaws I'm so sorry to hear the news from your scan. Sending you many hugs. Just take each day slowly.

Fingers are crossed for you sammy

bip sending you some hugs too, you have had a tough few weeks/months/years. I know that hope. It's brewing in me again and I'm trying to ignore it!

Good morning. Thank you for all the kind words yesterday. I have been up all night. Big ball of worry in my tummy.

I thought I would write out where I am to see what anyone thinks. If anyone has time. I still cannot believe I was told there was nothing more they can do. Without explaining why

So. I was on pill from about 2000 to 2012. Had mc at 7 weeks March 2013. Mc at 6 weeks September 2013. Mc 5 weeks February 2014. Then got referred to specialist. Took until about the November to get an appointment. They did bloods etc and we were then back March 2015.

Then sent for ovulation testing, all fine, sperm testing, all fine. November 2015 had a failed hsg as I collapsed but no one seemed bothered by that. Referred to infertility hospital at that stage.

Told IVF best option. Started down reg start of june, gonal f 30 june, took that for 15 days.

Lining was 3.5, folicles around 9mm. 6 of them. This was not my normal doctor. He just said cycles failed, no point in doing another, arrange discharge appointment. Amh was 5.4.

I read some stuff during the night about natural IVF after suggestion earlier in the thread. I will ask about that. I asked if anything could be done to improve amh. They said no.

I don't know what to do. I feel I have learnt so much already and went into this fairly blind. I promise I will help anyone else who needs it if I can in the future.

Hope everyone is ok today. X

Apologies to keep butting in (will introduce myself properly) but paws so sorry you're feeling shitty..... I am a complete ivf novice and our last cycle didn't got to plan AT ALL but my consultant said from that, there was a lot he could work on for next time and that first cycle is always a learning curve as people will always respond differently and ivf is actually a really helpful diagnostic tool. He also thinks the drugs can have a cumulative effect (if you cycle again within 6 mths) and effectively kick start things. Wise banana has the same consultant and experienced exactly the same. I'm also not sure how reliable amh is.....I had a reading of around 5 a while ago but more recently it was around 10 (really can't remember). In your case I think it would be worthwhile at least having one private appointment so you can go through the cycle with them (take all your bloods and scans) and see what they suggest in terms of ideal treatment plan. The NHS is bound to have stricter criteria in terms of who they can treat and depending on the hospital, may not have the funds to tailor cycles as needed. I am making massive assumptions here as we decided not to go down the NHS route for various reasons but it seems odd to me that they won't even attempt a cycle with different protocol/drugs.... For example I dr this cycle but my doc said he probably wouldn't dr me again as my response wasn't as good as he'd hoped.

Right after that epic post and the fact I'm de-lurking more frequently, hope you don't mind if I introduce myself.... 34 and just completed our first ivf cycle. Before that cycle I was "unexplained" although cycle flagged quite a few "issues" so think we're definitely less unexplained and more "you can give up shagging as that's not going to work". I've also had two early mc so all fun and games!

Hi four, I'm no expert and I'm sure others will be along with more precise advice but my questions/thoughts are:

Did you have any cause attributed to your recurrent miscarriage? What did they think about IVF would resolve these issues?

Do you know why they chose long protocol with gonal f? In my experience, those with low AMH usually end up on a short protocol with no down regging so if I were you, I would want to understand that and push for a different cycle approach next time. I can't believe that they want to discharge you rather than modify the treatment. I know others with lower AMH who have conceived naturally or got to blastocyst transfer with IVF. I would be really pushing for another go with a better suited cycle. Your AMH is low but it isn't terrible and certainly not so that it is time to give up. I would get on fertility friends and trawl the boards there for some of the advice for low AMH and different protocols to suggest.

What are your clinics success rates - are they good? Do you have the option of NHS treatment at a different hospital in your area and perhaps you could consider transferring?

Can you go and get a second opinion privately? One thing I know others have done is fill in the detailed questionnaire for Serum and then they respond with their views and suggestions so you can get a view that way.

I've only done two long protocol cycles so this is slightly outside of my experience. It might also be worth starting a thread in infertility asking for further advice too.

Just a starter for ten really - but I'm fairly clueless compared to others! Hope you're ok.

Exactly what chocolate said - first cycle is meant to be diagnostic as well as therapeutic (so many docs I've seen repeat this phrase!) so they should really be gathering info to support next cycle (even if they won't do it). Also, I would want to see the hospital policy that says you can't try again - ask about that too.

Thank you chocolate and tiger. Welcome chocolate and sorry you are here, though grateful for your help.

I have started a list and am noting all this down.

Tiger, nope, no reason for mc found, IVF seen as best way forward due to passage of time between last one and nothing at all happening.

I will book a private consultation. I think I will go to appointment in first August initially, armed with these questions and go from there.

I am also reading my mountains of papers from the clinic this morning. Nowhere does it cover cancelling a cycle before even reaching egg collection. The hospital (Royal ed) also does private. Don't get me wrong, I can't fault the nurses and my usual consultant. I wanted to ask if I could pay for what's been done so far, draw up a new plan and reuse my nhs shots for two short protocol cycles. Does that seem reasonable? It's just Looking at the costs, I have spent about ten percent of the costs of one cycle privately. Surely as its not been completed I could ask to have that not counted as a nhs one. Dunno, just seems unfair, bit like life at the moment. That would then give me a reserve for future. I just feel pissed off that this is supposed to be there for me and then they take it away without explanation.

It seems reasonable but do they have that sort of flexibility in terms of funding and switching over? I have no clue!!

I think tigers point re policy for not letting you cycle again is really important. And I'd want more investigation into mc.

Did they change your dose at all in this cycle?

Probably not chocolate. I just wanted to ask. I suppose I am thinking say you get 5000 of nhs treatment, and I spent 500. Then they just tell me to go away. How's that fair. But I don't expect any of it to be fair really. I will of course pay, but it's more the principle of it. Which I know is a stupid thing to worry about. I think I am falsely directing my anger anywhere really.

Dosage was increased from 225 to 300 during cycle.

Hey four paws so sorry for what you're going through. There is a thread about a woman with low AMH levels on made for mums that may be worth you reading. I googled low AMH and it came up. The women with similarly low levels seem to have been offered ways to move forward. NHS def more limited. They don't achieve NICE recommendations in many areas. I am on nhs and was told Natural cycle was only offered by a few London clinics so not an option. I keep reading that it is egg quality not quantity and there are cases of women with indiscernible AMH that conceive. Hope you can calm your thoughts a bit the only way I can shut all the panic out is reading so that the words shut out my thoughts and box sets for same reason. Thinking of you.

Thank you Sara. This is correct. My mind has gone into overdrive. It's like before I had hope, something to focus on, and now this big empty space. I can't think straight at all. I will try a book later and see if that helps. I feel awful today. So very sad.

I'm sorry for being so me focused this morning. I am thinking of all of you as well. I'm just abit all over the place.

Fourpaws I'm so so sorry for what you're going through

I absolutely do NOT think you are a lost cause, I think you've been stimmed completely appallingly

Before my first two cycles I had almost undetectable AMH (1.5) - my FSH was as high as 17.6 a year ago

Long protocol is definitely not advised for low AMH women as down regulation runs the risk of over suppression and poor response - ie sleepy ovaries don't wake up properly. So short protocol is almost always recommended for anyone with low ovarian reserve

The dose of stims also sounds woefully inadequate for someone with low AMH on a conventional IVF cycle - especially on long protocol where higher doses of stims are required. 225iu is an average starting dose for someon with normal AMH, 300iu for someone with fair AMH, and for someone with very poor AMH you might do 450iu starting dose

For very poor responders you might do mild IVF, or natural modified, where the goal is to get fewer, better quality eggs - although I don't believe the NHS tends to do mild cycles

I did very well on high stims short protocol, we got a much better response than predicted. My antral follicle count before my first cycle was just 5, we got 7 eggs. My antral follicle count before my second cycle was 10, we got 17 eggs

I also took DHEA which can help ladies with low ovarian reserve

The NHS won't normally do investigations for miscarriage until you've had 3 consecutive losses, but it seems bonkers to be funding IVF without looking into your miscarriages, as if there's a simple explanation that hasn't been addressed, it could affect the outcome of this cycle. Basic thrombophilia and autoimmune tests that are done for recurrent miscarriage would be worth asking about - it could be that something as simple as a baby aspirin and some clexane could prevent further miscarriage

IVF can help you get pregnant, but won't necessarily help you to stay pregnant, unless they're giving you the right treatment

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this, it sounds like they've just plonked you in a one size fits all box. Glitter shit to you and a massive steaming pile of actual shit to them

I'm on a fab low AMH cycle buddies thread on Fertility Friends - there's a whole low AMH board, lots of lovely women with tonnes of shared knowledge and experiences x