Any success stories and ideas for secondary infertility?

[Annabellaboo]

Hello ladies.
I am hoping to get some ideas and support on here.
I am 35 years old, very healthy with a 3 year DS. We have been trying to conceive our second child for 2 years now. I became pregnant very easily with my first and had an easy pregnancy.
This time nothing.
I have had all the tests the nhs provides. Progesterone normal, I ovulate, DH sperm count is normal, no blockages etc etc. I have tried charting, ov sticks, changed my already pretty healthy diet (cut out refined sugars and have lots more greens etc, and alkalised my body). I take advised supplements and have even tried acupuncture.
I do however have short cycles, sometimes as short as 21 days but averaging 24. This is a little shorter than I had before my DS.
We cannot afford IVF and I am not sure I can face that anyway.
My consultant last month has prescribed me a half dose (25mg) of clomid, which a scan showed on the first round it definitely boosted things even more with a good few mature follicles. I already ovulate but she thought as my cycles are quite short and a little irregular it may give me a boost.
I have been convinced several times I was pregnant (oh how cruel our bodies and brains can be!) but AF always turns up.
I guess what I am asking is does anyone have any other suggestions of things I could try or why I can't conceive time. I am open to theories and alternative methods.
Any experience in this subject and success stories please share.
I try not to stress about it all, but some months it just really gets you down as there is no real 'reason'. The hard thing is watching other mums around get pregnant multiple times so easily.
Thank you for listening!
Anna

[Annabellaboo]

Hi ladies, I hope you both had a nice Mother's Day. Sorry to hear AF arrived rose, so cruel with your dream I know.
Yeah my crazy lady came out in full force, I took 2 tests-bfn and then when I went back to fish them out the bin a few hours later (as a crazy lady does!!) they had what I am 99% sure is an evaporation line. I had one of these before and got all excited so I know better now! I am due on any day now, feels like sooner rather then later. Slightly disappointed about this cycle in general. It's my first one off the clomid and I had a tiny bit of spotting a couple days ago which for me always happened when my cycles were really short.
So I am taking that as a sign AF is coming and my cycles are perhaps a little shorter again
Other potential pregnancy symptoms also seem to have mostly gone so not hopeful at all, but of course I never totally let go until the witch arrives! Off to reiki today so that is something to be happy about. You should look into it rose for dealing with stress it's amazing. It's a healing treatment that works with energy flow in the body.
Sounds like a good choice with the IVF closephine, that would be a huge hastle going into London like that.

[closephine85]

Oh no, sorry to hear the crazy has arrived Anna - inevitable I think unfortunately. Do you use tests with pink lines or blue? I think evaporation lines are supposedly worse on tests with blue lines, also if they appear 'grey' rather than the colour of the other line, that's apparently more likely evaporation. But I've only got that info from reading in forums so no idea if that's scientifically correct!

I'm feeling slightly crazy myself this morning. I called my hospital to ask for DHs semen analysis results, I have done this before and they have been more than fine to read them out to me over the phone. This morning they have refused to give them to me and told me my DH should come to my IUI appointment on Wednesday. Which he can't do as has patients himself booked in at that time. Waiting to hear if they will at least tell them to him over the phone but obviously I have now convinced myself it's bad news and he now has zero sperm. Not sure why they would suddenly not tell us the results over the phone otherwise?!?

[Rose8282]

Oh bless you, Closephine. I would try not to get too worked up. It is most likely just be a little bit abnormal like it was before, and the person who answered the phone is a bit unconfident and doesn't want to do anything wrong by giving out any kind of result they're unsure about. People have no idea the effect small things like that can have on a patient though.

Sorry to hear about the weird pregnancy test, Anna. I agree that all hope is not lost until the signs of a period though so hang in there. It's enough to send you over the edge though, and kind of what ruined my weekend, argh! I'm really tempted to try the Reiki too, not feeling the hypnotherapy but trying to give it a bit more of a chance before I give up altogether.

Feeling better today though, and DH and I had our first appointment with the fertility clinic (on the NHS) this afternoon. They seem to think bloods and semen look ok (though count and motility could be better she implied). They've booked me in for an HSG next week, so fast. She mentioned it can be pretty painful and kinda mentioned it being a little similar to labour pains, which has freaked me out somewhat, please tell me that wasn't the case for you guys?!
She took a cervical swab and took bloods, and all the while my DH is just sitting there and it made laugh how much stuff we women have to go through, and men just get to sit there and watch, ha!

Anyway, it feels good to get things moving now, and at least find out if there is anything blatantly wrong, though it's all a little scary.

Anna, holding out for you!... :)

Closephine, the nurse have me a list of London fertility private clinics for IVF, I asked her whether she knew which were more recommended and she mentioned the Lister :)

[Rose8282]

Oh sorry I just noticed the link you provided Closephine, thank you so much. I will have a read later xx

[closephine85]

HSG was nothing like labour pains! Don't worry, it was like bad period cramps at worst and only lasted a few seconds for me. Honestly don't worry yourself about it. I was expecting far worse than it actually was. I forgot to take my pants off when I changed into my hospital gown for mine, then when they got me up on the bed they were like 'sorry love, you're going to need to take those off!' Cue hasty removal of knickers and shoved them in my gown pocket

The clinic finally called me back at 4.30 - they said all they can say on the phone is its 'similar' to last time. So we'll find out more on Thursday at our private appointment but have cancelled our IUI for this month as it seems like a pointless process with his count so low :(

Glad to hear your clinic said that lister is one of the recommended ones. And good that you have got the ball rolling now. Hopefully you'll get some more answers soon.

[Annabellaboo]

Hi ladies. Rose-don't worry the HSG was not painful for me at all.
I know some ladies feel some pain but I am pretty good with things like that and relaxed as much as possible and it wasn't bad. Not nice but honestly not more uncomfortable than a smear for me. Also, for a lot of women it can really get things moving. Didn't work for me but I have heard good success stories from it even if no blockages are found. Did they give you antibiotics to take? I choose not to take mine as if really is a very very small chance of any infection so didn't want to weaken my immune system unnecessarily. I had no problems at all after. Really good they booked you in so fast, mine was slower.
I know AF is almost here. I have more spotting and feel all the usual just before signs
On a nice note my husband and I had a really good chat tonight. He saw on my iPad this chat forum and said he couldn't help but have a little read. Although I did feel like my he invaded my privacy slightly it is actually a good thing as he now seems to understand more what I am going through and was very sweet and supportive. Lots of amazing things were said and although I broke down which is the first time in a long time, it was a good breakdown if you know what I mean. The main thing is I now know how much he really does want another child too and how committed he is to try and make that happen in whatever day possible, including making some changes to his own well being. We even spoke about adoption! Although I am not ready to go down even thinking about that yet, it's good to know he's open to it. It's nice to really feel his love and support.
Trying to fight off the disappointment this month now, got myself all wound up!
Closephine, that's at least a relief there is no change, what a horrid few hours toeture!

[closephine85]

Anna's post has jogged my memory. I had a horrible reaction to one of the antibiotics they have me to take for the HSG - I can't remember what it was called but I think it started with a C, basically about 3 hours after taking it each day I would get all the symptoms of a horrible UTI, it would last all afternoon and into the evening when it would finally ease off... After about 3 days I couldn't take it anymore and stopped taking them. I'm sure it won't happen to you, but just something to be aware of I guess if you start feeling like you have a UTI!

Sounds like you had a good heart to heart with your DH Anna, is it this thread he read? I think I'd be pretty embarrassed if my DH read my posts on here but if you got things out in the open then that's a good thing.

[closephine85]

I think the antibiotic was called doxycycline. I was prescribed another too that I can't remember the name of. Seems a little excessive when you think about it. Odd that they prescribe them for HSG but nothing after laparoscopy too... Surely surgery is more of a risk?

[Rose8282]

They didn't mention any antibiotics funnily, but maybe they'll suggest it on the day. I'll ask them about how necessary they feel it is. Agree not overly keen on taking them, especially what with potential side effects.
I was just thinking about laparoscopy last night, as they didn't mention it at all, so I don't think it will be offered. Have you both had it done?
I was reading that it is the gold standard test in fertility investigation, so a bit disappointed it hasn't been mentioned at all. It costs about 3 grand to get it privately!

Glad to hear you had a good chat with your DH Anna, and so sorry to hear your AF is likely coming- it doesn't get easier. I think communication in couples is so important going through something like this, as tensions can easily develop, especially when it affects such a huge part of your life (i.e. sex life!). Actually the one thing we were offered on the NHS was fertility couple counselling. Would be quite up for it, but have no idea where on earth we would find the time, and where we would put our daughter!

Closephine, yes I got the impression they didn't have a huge amount of faith in IUI in general from yesterday's appointment, apparently they've stopped offering it in our local area on the NHS due to low success rate. I really think IVF could be successful in your case though, as you know the cause, and that's where IVF fills the gaps- have they recommended ICSI as well or just IVF?

[closephine85]

I think we will find out more at our appointment on Thursday, but I think icsi is likely to be suggested. Lister also do imsi which I understand is even better at pinpointing the best sperm, so I think we would go for that option if we have to use one.

Whereabouts are you in your investigations? To give an idea, I first went to the dr in September 2014, I had the HSG in March 2015, DH had semen analysis at the same time, another in June 2015, we had IUI in October and December 2015 and finally laparoscopy in February 2016 after mentioning we wanted to go down the Ivf route. I think they do the HSG first because it could potentially clear small blockages without the need for surgery. You may still be offered a laparoscopy at a later date. I find unfortunately you don't get anywhere fast in this process!

[Annabellaboo]

Hi ladies,
Yes AF arrived today it was a strange day because my DS out of nowhere this morning found a feather, blew it away and said "I wish for a baby brother"!! We don't really mention anything about a baby in front of him so it was a surprise and it stabbed my heart like a knife when I heard him say that. I also had a good conversation with a friend today who had to have IVF for both her pregnancies. She had unexplained fertility for 2 years until she went privately for an AMH test and it showed her egg reserves were very low. Then she knew she had to have IVF as it was unlikely she would ever conceive naturally. Luckily IVF worked first time for her on both tries. I have now called a private clinic locally for that test (£100) so not bad and at least I will know so I can then make some decisions from there. Closephine- I can't remember if you said you had this test?
And yes it was this thread my DH read! I was mortified at first but actually it has turned out to be a good thing as it made him realise just how difficult it is for me.
Rose- if they don't offer you antibiotics don't worry, apparently they never used to do this and some doctors still don't. And yes the whole process does take quite a while I'm afraid. But it's good you are getting started with everything and you will hopefully be more clued up than I was about what to expect and ask etc.

[Rose8282]

Juts wanted to check in and say so sorry your AF arrived Anna, and OMG I would also find that heartbreaking re what your little boy said. What a sweetheart, but oh so hard. My daughter is still not quite at that level of awareness to realise I don't think, but I'm sure it won't be too long and am dreading it.

Thank you for all you info re. the HSG, feeling a bit more relaxed about it now. Closephine, the thread you attached is so useful, thanks. It does appear that costs do hike up regardless which clinic you go with, and though Create initially does look like a really good price, it sounds like its quite misleading. I agree I think I'd rather go with a more expensive one that is more highly regarded. It gives me palpitations just looking at their price lists, but I think we will find a way if needs be. Desperate to try and do it naturally before we get to that stage but know it's important to be realistic too.

[closephine85]

Hi Anna, sorry to hear about AF arriving :( my ds also says things along those lines too... He often talks about 'when we have a baby'. He's convinced it is going to be a girl and will be called Robin I actually had a little chat with him about it the other day because it's getting pretty regular. I told him that we do want another baby but we will have to wait and see. He replied 'we don't always get what we want do we'. Thought that was very wise for a four year old!

Yes, I've had my AMH tested - my clinic did it but I had to ask for it. It came out at 16.6, which is fine, but at the low end of normal for my age (30). My FSH was also fine st 6.5 (they like it to be under 10 I believe).

Rose - I've lost track, is your HSG this week or next? Hope it goes ok, let us know how you get on.

We had our consultant meeting today. I feel slightly deflated as we still have no concrete plan, although I know this really needs to come from us. He basically said that theoretically we could fall pregnant naturally but who knows if/when that may happen. He said we should do some stimulated IUI before going straight to Ivf. He recommended waiting until July/August to go for Ivf however mentally I'm not sure I can wait that long... Think it might have to be May for my sanity and will do one stimulated cycle of IUI next month.

[Rose8282]

HSG is next Tuesday. Doesn't look like our clinic will do the AMH on the NHS.

Sorry to hear the meeting didn't go quite as you'd hoped, Closephine. I guess we put so much on these appointments, and then maybe its an anticlimax when they can only deliver so much. I can see how it would be hard to imagine waiting till July/August for IVF- every month and every AF is so all-consuming it's hard not to go a bit crazy. I honestly think unless you've been through it, you can't really contemplate that, and I sometimes wonder how much certain health professionals must understand our despair, unless they happen to have gone through it themselves.

May is not long at all, and I think you know what's best for you and what feels right.

Your little boys sound so adorable, but that's hard with the baby talk. My DD is turning 3 next week. I remember her 2nd birthday when we had recently started trying and thinking we would have a small baby at her next birthday. She's very fascinated now with mummies having babies in their tummies, seeing our friends and her aunt. I showed her some photos yesterday of when I was pregnant with her and she loved it. So I'm sure it won't be long until she's asking if I have one in my tummy. Would soon love to be able to tell her I do. The things you fantasise about, more than ever in the 2ww- its what makes it so painful when AF does come round!

By the way, Closephine, I forgot to say that must have been horrendous getting your AF on xmas day, new years day and your 30th. Must have felt like someone had it in for you. Awful. I have so far been comparatively lucky, other than the Mother's day surprise! But sure there will a few of those to come.

[closephine85]

Hi Rose, that's a shame you can't get the AMH on the nhs, we are not nhs here so I guess it's different. Might be worth having it done privately though for peace of mind.

I think you're right about them not understanding the impact it has mentally. All they seem to focus on is my age, I can't see what difference it really makes, I have still been doing this for 2.5 years whether I'm 30 or 37. I know statistically it makes me more likely to conceive, but it doesn't feel like it at the moment.

Yes, sometimes I do think someone really is messing with me. AF arriving on each of those days was pretty rubbish. 30th birthday was especially bad as I was so desperate to have a second baby before turning 30. Unlikely to even be pregnant by the time I turn 31 at this rate (may).

BUT having just been super negative, I am actually feeling a little more upbeat today. I want to give this month the best shot possible and I think a positive attitude will help. I'm not tracking ovulation, we are DTD every other day and I think I will most likely ovulate over the weekend. I'm lucky in that I feel it when it happens so I'll know. I try not to think positively usually because I think I'll fall harder when it fails, however, I fall pretty hard when I'm thinking negatively anyway so I figure may as well give it a go :) perhaps the sunshine is helping too and the fact that my ds has been extra cute today, going to try and count my blessings a bit more.

[closephine85]

Are you still out there ladies? Just starting the 2ww and I can feel the crazy setting in already!

[Annabellaboo]

Hi closephine, sorry I've been a bit quiet. DH and I went for a rare night away for his birthday treat.
Sorry you are in the crazy 2ww zone! We're here for you!
I don't even know how I will cope this month. We have reached a real breaking point I think and are on the verge of thinking about going down the IVF route which I really am struggling with. I just never imagined I would find myself in this position, especially after conceiving so easily first time. We can't actually afford it right now but my parents have kindly offered to help if we need. Feels wrong in so many ways, but I feel I'm running out of time and options. I think the most frustrating part is there is no know reason for my infertility as of yet. I did get the AMH blood test done the other day and am anxiously awaiting the results. If it turns out I have low egg reserves we may seriously look into IVF.
Do you know anything about the women's clinic? There is one recently opened near me and I may enquire further but am scared to even entertain the idea. It really sucks being in this position doesn't it?!!
I hope you are still managing to hold onto your positivity through this 2ww.
Rose- maybe you could get the AMH blood test done too so you know that answer at least. I paid 100. Figure it's totally worth it to be able to make some decisions from there. Seems silly the NHS don't do it really when you think about it. Surely it could save a lot of time and money for some cases if they had that answer instead of guessing.
I have another consultant appointment at the end of this month and I have so many things to bring up this time and am hoping they will offer me a lapascopy to test for endometriosis so I can also get that answer. Not sure they will do it but I will push for it.

[closephine85]

Hi Anna

Thanks for replying :) that's really kind of your parents. We are also lucky as DHs parents can lend is the money too. It's still incredibly hard to make the jump though isn't it! Some days I just want to go and get it done in May. Others I find myself thinking that if nature doesn't want us to have another child there must be a reason why?! I know I need to make that decision ASAP if we are going to do it in May though.

I was offered my laparoscopy when I started talking seriously about Ivf so perhaps try that with your consultant. My clinic were of the opinion that I should have it done to rule out endometriosis or anything else that could get in the way of Ivf working. Very glad I've had it done now as it takes away all the 'what if' something hasn't shown up in the tests, ultrasounds etc.

I'm afraid I don't know anything about the women's clinic. You could always just give them a call and ask a few questions. I had about three lengthly calls with the Create clinic and in the end we've decided not to go there. At least it might give you a feel for how they do things.

Good luck with your AMH results. How old are you if you don't mind me asking? You have probably already said but I can't remember sorry.

Have you tried taking coenzyme q10? I keep reading how amazing it is. I think ubiquinol (it's natural form) is even better. It promotes healthy cell growth and therefor helps improve egg quality.

[closephine85]

Just realised it is your HSG today Rose - good luck!

[Annabellaboo]

Ah yes good luck today rose! It would actually be good if you do have a little blockage as the HSG could help clear it. Keep us posted.
Thanks closephine for the advice on the everything. I haven't taken the egg supplements so I think I will look into those. I am 35 so not the youngest but still seems strange as we had our DS easily when I was 32 and it's hard to believe a couple years would make such a difference?! I am also a very fit and healthy 35 yr old which makes it also seem very unfair. Sounds rude of me but when I see a very overweight, junk eating woman who just seems to pop out babies easily it makes me so mad not with them just with the injustice. I feel like my body has failed me. Like you I question if it's not happened naturally then it must be for a reason so maybe I shouldn't force it with IVF. I suppose knowing the situation with DH sperm it seems a likely necessity for you. I guess at the end of the day as long as we have a healthy baby in the end it doesn't matter how it get here. But the risks with IVF are also a little scary to me.

[Rose8282]

Hi girls,
So sorry of the radiosilence, especially when it's crazy 2ww time Closephine!
I've taken some annual leave this week, so we've been spending some family time together, which is lovely, but DD is also being quite testing and waking at stupid o'clock again so we are a little tired! We've also been in the process of buying a house in Hertfordshire, just out of London which has been a welcome distraction from this TTC business.

Thanks for the good luck messages, am a little nervous but will be good to get it out the way, and yes I agree it would actually be quite nice if there was a little blockage in some ways, or something treatable anyway.

Obviously we haven't been trying as long as you guys, but I think I know what you mean about the scariness of finally taking that step towards IVF. I think it's something that you always see and imagine other people doing, so when it's actually you, it feels enormous. I met up with a friend this morning who told me some lovely news, in that her brother-in-law (who I know) has got lucky with IVF on their second try. He was so devastated the first time when it didn't work out. They had two embryos implanted on this occasion (this is in France), so who knows, they may have twins. Anyway, he had a very low sperm count and they had ICSI, so really hoping it will work out for you, Closephine.

I don't know much about the Womens' Clinic. If it's the London Women's clinic, I know they have a satellite clinic in Luton, which is in Hertfordshire, so may seriously consider it as it'll be really close by.
I stopped reading up into clinics, as was finding it all a bit stressful. I think I've been in a bit of denial this last week that I'm in this situation, and probably secretly a bit hopeful that the HCG will help me get pregnant. But I know that's quite unlikely and when my AF comes again, I'll probably start googling the IVF info all over again.

Anyway, I hope you both find the next few weeks as stress-free as it feasibly possible (!), that is great news that your in laws have offered to fund the IVF, Anna. I am so hoping in a few months time we can all look back at this thread with bemusement when we are pregnant, we bloody well deserve it. You more than me :) xx

[Rose8282]

Hi girls,
The HSG really wasn't that bad, thanks for reassuring me. A bit undignified, but hey ho, nothing that having a baby doesn't prepare you for! He said it all looked pretty normal, except that I have a slight arcuate uterus (slight dip in the top of my uterus) which shouldn't really affect fertility but may possibly increase my risk of miscarriage (great!).

On my way home, my friend called me. She's a very close friend who has also been TTC for the last year for her third child. (she had one miscarriage a few months ago). She has been so supportive the whole time, and really sensitively told me she is now pregnant- I'm so happy for her, but it is quite emotional isn't it. I've been psyching myself up for her getting pregnant, and did my best to be sound happy for her, even though I felt so overwhelmed. I think if it had been someone else it may have been harder, but cos she knows very well how I've been feeling, I knew she'd know it was hard for me to hear it, and so that made it easier.

Anyway, feeling quite emotional right now, going to treat myself to a takeaway and a big glass of wine tonight, and get ready for another round of trying!!

Can I just say, it's really nice to have this group, even though we've never met. It's been a huge help. xx

[Annabellaboo]

Hi Rose, glad it wasn't too bad for you today, it's a relief when it's over isn't it. And yes I agree, it's often a huge help having this support here, kind of keeps us sane (ish!) through all the heartache and struggles.
I find a mixture of emotions too when friends around me get pregnant. I am overall always happy, just wishing for it to be my turn next.

[closephine85]

Hi ladies, sorry for sending out an sos and then disappearing. Had a ridiculously hectic few days - the busiest I have ever been with my work (I have my own business) and then yesterday out of the blue my sons nursery announced it would be shutting as of next week(!!) so I have been trying to find him a place somewhere else and also trying to keep him with his pals as they are all going to the same primary in September. Ridiculous!!! But anyway... :)

Anna I hear you on being pissed off with fat unhealthy people falling pregnant. it really irritates me! I actually put on a little weight when we started ttc as i had a bmi of 19 and I'd read that anything under 20 may interfere with getting pregnant. That was two years ago and I'm still half a stone heavier than I'd like to be because I'm worried that if I lose it again it's just another factor that could contribute to infertility. So not only am I barren but I'm conscious of my weight too! Then I look around at all these people who manage to get pregnant and I think it probably doesn't make much difference anyway!

Glad to hear your HSG went ok Rose. And that's good of you managing to be genuinely happy for your friend. But it is easier when someone else has struggled. I seem to find I'm much more sincere when I congratulate those who have struggled than those who it comes easy to.

Also agree it's lovely to have somewhere to come and chat to other people going through this.

So in not on day 3 of the 2ww I think. I didn't properly track my ovulation but then at the last minute did an opk on Monday and got a smiley face, so I start using my progesterone tomorrow morning. DH and I really have it our all this month lol. Decided that with his low count we needed to get as much there as possible (sorry if tmi!!!) give that egg nowhere to go! Haha :) one thought I really struggle with though, is that as our issue is potentially a male issue and the egg isn't fetilised. Then it's likely all over already... But I have to wait two LONG weeks to find out :(

[closephine85]

In not should read 'I'm now'