Anyone starting IVF soon? Join me (3)

[purplemeggie]

Ha! I was just about to post the last message in the old thread linking to this, but I'm too late, we've already filled it up! I'll do the same as last time and send PMs to everyone who's been on the thread recently, but everyone's welcome

Hooray Cat! That's great news....really pleased for you

Lucie - yes, in theory the cyclogest should have kept AF away until I stopped taking them, but it never did. The utrogestan was a different story though - I went four days over due on that.

Blue - glad things are kicking off for you. Fingers crossed for the FET x

Hope you're feeling better Waiting

No idea what's going on with me at the moment...I'm waiting for AF to start the meds for our FET. I'm normally 28 days like clockwork, but that was Friday and no sign as yet. Just as we've always said on here - the one time you want AF to show up, she doesn't!

Thank you shell it would be good to chat. We are already planning our next try in 2-3 months. I can only think it was a chromosomal problem and we had an unlucky batch of eggs. Hopeful eventually we will hit the right one. It's so hard though I don't know how you have done this 10 times, the 2ww is hell!

My lining was 9mm triple lined this time which they were very pleased with. I also had the scratch done just in case that helped. I used embryo glue and we also used PICSI for sperm which is supposed to select mature sperm with less chance of any genetic defects.

I am wondering whether to have a hysterscopy and / or HSG before the next try. I haven't had them before as I was told I didn't need it as no previous operations, pregnancies, irregular periods etc but I just want to cover all bases and make sure we are putting those blasts into a healthy place. Other than that I don't know what to try. I've emailed my doctor to ask lots of questions and see if she would change anything in my protocol for next time. I'm hoping she will up my dose of Menopur a bit as I think I could have responded a bit better on egg collection. Any other suggestions?

Lucie - I'd definitely say that was worth looking into. I have some fibroids that are completely "silent" - I only found out about them when I was pregnant with ds - so they obviously don't affect my fertility, but every time a new consultant has looked into my fertility issues, they've had a jolly good look and prod at them, so they obviously can be a concern. I think it's worth doing anything that would put your mind at rest and take one more thing off the list of stuff-to-worry-about-in-IVF.

Lucie - I'd definitely say that was worth looking into. I have some fibroids that are completely "silent" - I only found out about them when I was pregnant with ds - so they obviously don't affect my fertility, but every time a new consultant has looked into my fertility issues, they've had a jolly good look and prod at them, so they obviously can be a concern. I think it's worth doing anything that would put your mind at rest and take one more thing off the list of stuff-to-worry-about-in-IVF.

shellster I was 7dp5dt and my AF would have been due today in a normal cycle. I wish I'd tested this morning as well though, I just don't "feel"the same as yesterday or as tired as Saturday, and I'm petrified weds' test will be negative. DH says I'm over-analysing and he's probably right. I just know the stats on how precarious this positive is. 1 in 5 don't make it to 12 weeks...

I have some cramps that I can't remember noticing before, just really minor ones. Is that normal? I think I probably need to chill out a bit!

Purple AF is just the most capricious thing, isn't it? I'm sure it'll turn up just when it's most inconvenient.

Blue hoping all goes well for you on Weds.

Lucie a friend of mine had a full "MOT" done at Care Northampton (basically testing everything that can possibly tested). It costs about £2k so not cheap (though by now you will probably have has some of the tests already) but she did it after several rounds of IVF then wished she'd done it much earlier because of what was found (overactive killer cells- she was never going to have a successful pregnancy without drugs to control them). It's not what everyone might want to do but I liked the thought of actually trying to find out what's going (or not going) on instead of blindly doing cycle after cycle. Though of course it's entirely possible to spend all that money and not find out anything, when the money could have gone towards another cycle...

Cat - cramping is really common in early pregnancy and it doesn't mean anything sinister. The chances are, it's just little Cat burying in and getting comfortable. Personally, I'd test again if I were you....it will almost certainly give you a stronger, darker line and take a bit of the worry out of the next few days xxx

Thanks purple I had a good wave of nausea going round the supermarket today, plus I bought some cheap Sticks and just did one and there's a decent line so feeling much happier. I figure I'll test as often as I need to to keep peace of mind.

I'm guessing, like you say, little Kitten is getting comfy

Good stuff, glad you're feeling better about it. It's a nervous time for anyone and especially so if you've been waiting for a long time for your turn. Take care of yourself x

Congrats Cat!

I'm still waiting for confirmation of NHS funding, which they said should be within four weeks and five weeks have now passed since our funding check. I'm going to call the clinic if I don't hear this week, which they advised I do if I didn't hear in four weeks. They're so lovely there and I can't believe that there isn't a waiting list.

I've been doing a lot Of reading and am starting to wonder if a natural rather than medicated fet may be possible for me. But,being crap at working out timings etc and how this would work I thought I'd ask for some help!

So, I have two day two embryos and one day three. Ideally I'd like them to be thawed and cultured to blast stage to transfer.... If I go for a natural fet how does that work, I know I have to use opk to detect lh surge but when would they then thaw the embryos and on what day would they be transferred ? I'm a bit confused about it all and can't work out a timeline in my head! Any help would be appreiciated

Hi Waiting. If they culture them to blastocyst stage, then you'd have your transfer 5 days after ovulation.

However, I'm not sure what purpose it would serve to culture them to blastocyst though, unless you are planning to transfer all of them. My reasoning is this: if you thaw one and aim to culture to blastocyst, and it stops developing on, say, day 4, you would need to wait another month for the transfer.

If, on the other hand, you decide to have them transferred on the day that they are thawed, you could start on d2po and thaw one (or two) for transfer. My clinic always said that your body is the best incubator - and I know other ladies on here have been told the same thing - so if the embryos survive the thaw and you just thaw the number that you want to transfer, then you might as well have them put back in.

The reason that most clinics culture to blastocyst with a fresh cycle is to identify the strongest embryos, by eliminating those that do not make it to day 5. Since yours are all frozen, you may as well thaw them on the day that they are transferred to give them the best chance.

With my second fresh cycle, I had 3 embryos on day 2 and, because I had already had two failed transfers, we had decided to transfer up to 3. When I had 3 embryos left, we transferred immediately.

I just had it in my mind that a blastocyst transfer was better as its more likely to implant?? I'm not sure I just feel like on day 2/3 the embryo would, in a natural conception still be floating down the Fallopian tube so I want to put an embryo back in the uterus at the stage it would be normally in the uterus if that makes sense (probably not as I'm rambling!)

But then I can see the pov that the uterus is the best incubator and I'd hate to thaw then none make it, I'm just wondering if a natural fet would be better as I've not done very well full of hormones!

Does a natural FET have to be at blastocyst stage? To my mind, it's two separate decisions: Natural or medicated and day 2/3 or day 5....could you not do natural at day 2/3?

If you look at the bare stats, then yes, transfers at blastocyst have a higher rate of implantation, but you need to look at why that is happening. Part of it is because, outside of their natural environment, only the really tough little b*ggers can survive. And if you've got lots at that stage, then it makes sense to use that process of attrition to eliminate the weaker ones and put back the ones that survive to day 5. It's not about day 5 being a better time to put them back, it's about knowing that at day 5 you have the strongest candidates.

But, if you don't have so many to choose from, then it makes sense not to keep them in the artificial environment and to give them the best chance you can. An embryo that might not have made it to day 5 in a petri dish might just implant and become a successful pregnancy.

As you say, it would be devastating to get to day 5 and find that none of them had survived, having gone through such a miserable process to get here.

Does your clinic have a nurse that you can talk through strategy with? With the clinic I was with in the UK, I always had an "implications" meeting to work out how things would happen and after the first cycle (when I missed out on having an endo-scratch because the appointment was too late in my cycle for us to schedule one in), I always used to ask for my implications appointment well in advance so that I had time to request things, think about things and make decisions. Might be worth seeing if you can do that and talk it through with someone who will be able to give you the stats for your clinic and talk through the natural/medicated stuff.

Just to reassure you though (as a bit of a veteran of FET/DE cycles!) - the drugs for a medicated FET are far less "aggressive" than those for a fresh cycle and you won't have the stims, which were what made you so unwell.

Hi Osirus - exciting times! Definitely sounds like it's worth ringing the clinic...good luck .

Cat, a massive congratulations. Hip hip hooray! It is such brilliant news that one of us is pregnant and I imagine the nausea is a good sign.

Shellster thanks for your kind words. I spent much of last week numb with shock and indescribable disappointment and now that the shock has lifted I'm just an emotional wreck - I'm fine one minute and crying the next. There are so many similarities between going through a failed IVF cycle and raw grieving. It does look like we'll be cycling together for the next one, assuming my next period arrives promptly - the end of May. Keeping my fingers crossed for you and that your AF arrives when you expect it to. With this being my first failed IVF cycle I was pretty shocked at the level of bleeding and just how poorly I felt some days. On the plus side, all the horrid weight gain has fallen away so I can at least fit back into my jeans (and pants). Small consolation though!! I'm now booked in for the scratch, didn't have it last time as it was never offered to me. I'm hoping this makes the difference. It would seem that some clinics offer this as standard...not sure what everyone's thoughts are on it? It's an extra £200 at my clinic.

Lucie I am so sorry that your cycle didn't work out for you. We are in a similar position in so much that I also had 2 top quality blastocysts transferred. I personally felt assured that at least one would implant, but sadly I'm sat here making all the necessary arrangements for my next and final cycle. Good luck for when you jump back on board and try again in a few months.

Purple and Waiting wishing you all the best of luck with your FET. Also interesting to follow your conversation about 2/3 day embryos and blastocysts.

Osirus hope you get the news you are hoping for re: NHS funding so you can get the ball rolling.

Thanks Choc it's very hard isn't it. The bleeding has only just started properly for me today but boy is it heavy! When are you starting again? Ideally I would like to start on my next period which is the end of May but I'm not sure if this is too soon. I wouldn't want to jeopardise anything and get a poor response. What have others done?

Spoke to my clinic, they will not culture to blast stage and will put embryos back on day 2 or 3.
They said I can choose a natural or medicated cycle but have advised (strongly) to go for medicated so I'm going to go with that

Waiting - my clinic was the same - said they got much better results with a medicated FET, which was good enough for me. And as I said, I'm sure you'll find the meds far less tough on your body than with a full fresh cycle.

Choc - crying is good for you, honest - I'm a big believer in it - and especially since my dsis showed me an article that said they analysed tears and found they were used to excrete cortisol from the body, so they actually make you feel better. And the grief IS real...plus you're coming down off a hideous hormone high. It's a really tough time - be gentle on yourself x

Lucie - I can't remember if you're on a long or a short protocol - and of course this may change for the next cycle anyway. I effectively did 3 cycles back-to-back last year: fresh/fet/fresh. I had 13 weeks between the first two transfers (2ww, 4 weeks to next AF, 21 days before starting down-reg, 2 weeks of down-reg , 2 weeks of stims). If you have a short protocol, you can get away with 8 weeks and 5 days between: 2ww, 4 weeks to next AF, start stims on day 2, stim for 2 weeks, EC, ET 5 days later. I'm assuming you have a 28 day cycle...if not, you can adjust a bit.

So, my AF turned up today, so I start taking the meds tomorrow morning. I need confirmation from the clinic, but I think we're aiming for ET on 23rd May.

Thanks purple I'm on short protocol so you think I could get away with starting stimms on my next af? Do you think it would affect the response?

I don't see why not. That's what I've done this time - I had ET on 16 March and the next one will be on 23 May. Two bleeds - one after 2ww, and one proper AF and then however long you need to stim. Should be fine, it's just one "proper" bleed that they insist upon.

How are you feeling? You sound as if you are being very strong and pragmatic. Don't forget to let yourself be sad as well xxx

Ok thanks purple I have emailed my doctor to see what she thinks. I am feeling ok actually. I was sad last week and DH and I had another little cry on the weekend but I feel a lot better now. I went back to work today and whilst I was dreading it I did find that helped too. I am just fortunate that we are able to go again soon. We are going to give it another try at Reprofit as soon as I can and I am also completing the forms for Gennet. I have heard a lot of good things about them and I would have gone to them initially if it weren't for the 4 month waiting list but I'm going to get on the list now so that if the 2nd cycle doesn't work then that's our back up ready. It feels good to have plans and at the moment I am determined to make things work for us.

Good stuff. Just a thought: check out Arleta IVF too - they do a very thorough scan of your uterus, including plotting any fibroids/dodgy tissue and measuring the length of the neck of the uterus to plan how far in to do the transfer as a standard part of your first consultation. I thought of it when you mentioned that you were thinking of a hysteroscopy/HSG the other day, but I didn't know that you were considering changing clinic and thought it might be too much info/not helpful at that moment.

Glad you're feeling upbeat: the odds really are on your side and I feel confident for you x

Thanks purple I will look into it. I will probably stay with the same clinic the second time around but if that doesn't work may go for a change on third go.

Transfer day for me tomorrow. Fingers crossed our plucky little embryo makes it through the thawing process in the morning. Apparently only 1 in 10 fails but who knows? Luck hasn’t really been on our side this year.

Anyway like Daley Thompson used to say, POSITIVE MENTAL ATTITUDE. Transfer is scheduled for tomorrow afternoon unless I get an unwanted phone call from the embryologist in the morning. Watch this space.

Glad everyone else is doing OK. Purple not long until you're also back on the FET bus!

Sorry I went AWOL for a bit. Been busy which is a good thing as time hasn't dragged so much while I wait for my IVF... but so much has happened here since

lucie, I actually read about one clinic (in USA?) on the net that especially has a 3 month back to back IVF package because they say they find a higher success rate that way. But of course with clinics being all about profit, not sure if that's why they really offer this. But I have heard of many stories where women conceive naturally after a failed IVF cycle and I know of one couple that got twins the cycle after a miscarriage. So it does make sense that our fertility hormones are on a high after IVF and perhaps this could be a good thing for repeating IVF soon after? My Dr says wait one month between cycles so according to her, you one month wait is fine. You sound like you've got the same coping strategy as me... create and move on to plan B to help you look forward to the future and move on from the sadness of the failed plan A. Have you read that study on the high protein low carb diet? Statistically, it's supposed to get 50% of embryos survive to blast, so perhaps that might help - and be another practical thing you can feel like you are doing now for plan B to help you move forward.

So it's your turn now purple! Although I guess unlike fresh IVF where's there's scans and updates, there's no real news from you now until it's transfer time. Will you go to the clinic a few days before the transfer for a scan to check your lining?

Waiting, I understand what you are saying about them still being in the fallopian tubes on day 2 or 3 and I did in fact read one study showing that they don't like the premature exposure to progesterone in the uterus. However, I also read another study that backs up exactly what Purple says and that the embryos did much better when transferred to the uterus than in the worlds best culture medium and embryos which would not have survived to blast in the culture medium were transferred earlier and went on to create pregnancies. The IVF process is even more stressful when there are options! I had one embryo at day 3 and decided to wait til day 5. It was going great at day 4, but died the morning of my day 5 check. Of course, I then spent time wondering 'what if I transferred earlier. But then if I did and it didn't take, I would have wondered what if I waited til day 5! You sound like you are leaning towards day 5 and because there's no right answer, you just have to do what is best for you.

Darkchoc, I too would prefer preggers and not fitting into my jeans, than failed IVF but back to original weight! It's just such a shock that both you and luci had 2 top quality embryos make it all the way to day 5 and it seems like all they have to do is implant at day 6 and you've got two chances for that to happen, but it doesn't. Must make it all the more of a shock when it doesn't work. I personally am very pro 'the scratch' after reading about it upping the success rate of implantation. I usually have a thin lining and light period and I do find that it also helps thicken my lining for the following IVF cycle, but not sure if that's your issue.

Osirus, any word from your clinic?

I am at day 11 of my cycle. So trying naturally over the next few days (just to waste some time!) then starting estrogen on day 20 in prep for IVF next cycle.

By the way Lucie my doc is a big fan of hysteroscopies, especially if you have suspected fibroids. I had one removed from the inside of my womb before I started IVF. Well worth it in my opinion.