secondary infertility

[mumtosammy]

i have been trying for a second baby for 2 years with no luck (it took 12 months with DS - he's now 3.8). i've just been referred by my dr to an infertility clinic, as he thinks i'm probably not ovulating (tests have not shown anything else up). anyone else out there had an experience of this? think the next steps will be a hycosy and then clomid, any tips or advice on what to ask at the appointment much appreciated!
anyone else out there struggling with the thought of a growing age gap and sadness that their DS might not have another sibling? also feeling that we're getting further and further away from the 'baby stage', it seems so long ago.
also the process of infertility appointments seems so long! we've already been in the system months having the gp appointments and still not got the hospital date.
anyone else feel like this?

Hi everyone,

Wondering if I can butt in as I'm seriously struggling at the min .

DD is 5 and is my entire world, but aside from actually wanting another child, her constant pleas for a sibling break my heart. My images of two little sisters snuggled up together seems to fade every month (though the pain increases!)

We'd been referred for fertilty testing back in May. DH is fine. My scan showed what appears to be 'blood filled cysts', what the consultant thinks is possible endometriosis. On top of this I don't think I ovulate but Dr doesn't want to act on this until the cysts are dealt with. Fair enough.

So I'm currently on a waiting list for keyhole surgery and that dye thingy! Feeling useless.

Does anyone have experience of this?

I must say I'm surprised I even managed to get pregnant with DD if endo is the problem! as I've had heavy, painful periods since I was a teen!

Hello Tapdancing - I'm sorry to hear you're going through this. Yes - my ds, who is 6, goes through phases of asking for a sibling. Whenever he gets a wish, for blowing out candles or something, he asks for a sister. It's heart-breaking, isn't it? He's the only only-child in his class and he just doesn't understand why he can't have a sibling. We explained, in the end, that there was something wrong with Mummy's tummy, that we were seeing a doctor who was trying to help and that there were no guarantees, but that we would like him to have a brother or sister too.

We've just had a transfer in our second (almost certainly our last, whatever the outcome - with my eggs at least) IVF cycle, so here's hoping for a miracle. For you too x

Glad to hear the ultrasound was all clear mumtosammy. It is bizarre isn't it that we fail to get pregnant when everything is apparently working normally! I bought a book this week called Taking Charge of you Fertility. I'm going to start the whole temperature charting thing. At least it'll feel like I'm doing something useful!
Hi Tapdancing. Sorry you are struggling at the moment. It must be very difficult when your DD asks for a sibling. My DD is only 2.3 so a bit young for that yet, but I'm sure it will happen. I hope you don't have to wait too long for the surgery.
I've got everything crossed for you purple.x

Have any of you tried Duofertility from Cambridge Temperature Concepts? I used one for a couple of years before we started down the IVF route, and it gave me loads of info about what my body was doing. I was using it when I conceived the pregnancy that I miscarried, and I'm sure it helped. It also "confirmed" a number (3 or 4) of chemical pregnancies that I wouldn't have been sure about without it. It's not cheap, but if your infertility's unexplained, it may just answer some questions and be a lot cheaper than IVF.

Purplemeggie, I hadn’t heard of that one - I’ll look it up. I didn’t have any luck when using the Clearblue fertility monitor as it never showed that i’d ovulated, but actually that now makes sense given that it looks like this might be my problem.
Tapdancing, completely understand how you must feel. I keep thinking my ds (now 3.10) will ask about a sibling anytime soon and steeling myself for it. it must be awful when it’s the one thing you really want, and want to to give them, too.
I’m feeling a bit frustrated today, I rang up to book my HSG (the only test left to do before I can see the consultant again) and they don’t have any doctors in that do that test on any of the required days of my cycle... I just have to ring up again next month and try to get an appointment again. I had got myself all geared up for it being next week and spent ages stressing about how to get time off work etc…
Hope everyone else is doing ok.

Thanks for the welcome

Have any of you got to the stage now where testing is just to painful and you just wait for your period? I know both are equally heartbreaking but there's just something about those horrible, stark, white tests that make me weep!

I hadn't heard of the Duofertility thing purple. It definitely looks tempting but I guess all it's really telling you is the best time to DTD. I'm going to give the charting and cm monitoring a go first to see if that throws up any thing interesting. If it wasn't £500 I would probably go for it though!

mumtosammy that must have been soooo annoying. Just when you're all geared up to have it done. I hate being told to wait another month as well. Every month just feels like I'm that bit older and even less likely to get pregnant!

Yes Tapdancing I do try to wait until my period arrives now because the negative tests are too awful. Couldn't hold out last month though because of the Clomid thing. I long for the amazing feeling again where you look at the test and see the two lines! Let's hope it happens for all of us. x

Hello,

Lovely, reassuring thread to read.

My DD1 is 6 yrs old. She's desperate to have a sister (don't think she wants a brother) and has been nagging me for what feels like years. I generally tend to ignore her pleas now and tell her she's got to stop asking and it will happen when we are ready. That was my friends advice. It sort of worked although it still does come up.

Anyway, I'm in the 2 week wait. Had embryo transfer on sat. No rhyme or reason for secondary fertility. Been trying for around 18 months. Very frustrating. Everyone has different routes and I think it depends on the doctors you see. At the first appt I thought I'd be sent away and told to keep trying but I went armed with all my fertility friend stats. I got bloods done that month and my scan came through that month also. All fine. Nothing to report. Husband went for sperm test. That was bad. Got referred to infertility clinic who said that sperm was so bad we had to to icsi. That floored us. Thought I'd have to have loads of stuff done before we even got to that stage.

Anyway, we knew we had to pay and we knew we had to have another child so just got appointment with ivf clinic. That took a few weeks then we went for the initial consultation. I was fine and low and behold husbands sperm was absolutely normal. He was over the moon. I was seriously confused. Anyway, they were very straight talking and I actually liked that. They said we could go on trying for as long as we liked. It could happen next month or it could happen in 5 yrs time, but if we were going to decide to do ivf in 5 yrs our chances were drastically reduced. Decided to go away and try for another 3 months. Did that and not even a whiff of a Bfp. We even got married in those 3 months and had sex loaded holiday. Gutting.

3 months up. Period arrived, I phoned hospital and started short cycle. There was no waiting list because we had to pay. I could have started it immediately after the initial consultation. Just before I was about to start injecting I had a wobble and phone hospital. I asked if maybe I should have further investigations- I'd never had Hycosy or anything. Again, the consultant said that I could put myself through a load of tests and waiting but it still couldn't guarantee natural conception. Bit weird but I was fed up of thinking and analysing and although the money is a bit of a financial hit on us, we have savings thank god and it will be worth it.

So, here I am waiting now to see if I can give my little girl her long awaited sibling. I need to control my mind, but I keep thinking about when I can tell her if it actually happens.

Finally just about his sperm. It was completely normal again for the sample when I had egg collection. So much so that they said we didn't need icsi. We are both convinced the first sample was messed up because he did it at home and took it to hospital and the reception was so busy he literary had to wave his sample above his head to get it taken off him. I'm sure the delay meant something weird happened.

If I'm lucky enough to have this one stick, my daughter will be 7. Not how I wanted it but I think in a way she'll enjoy it so much more. She'll be so proud and best of all she can be my little helped! Someone to fetch nappies and watch baby when you have a shower! I think she will be my little god send and I can't change it now so I just have to be thankful for what I have now and just pray for the rest.

Btw. Every single egg fertilised and every single one made it to blyoclast stage which overjoyed us but also confused us because his sperm obviously likes my eggs, so why it hasn't happened naturally is beyond me.

Good luck everyone. Just keep holding on to that it will happen for us ....

Oh and tapdancing I never test early. It's too crushing. I did the first few months when I thought it was going to be a walk in the park but then I realised that until your period shows even if you have a bfn your mind still plays tricks. Everyone if different, but I felt stronger if I don't test. I never bought them. Although hospital have given me one and told me which day to test which is going to be excruciating not to use it before x

Hi allchatnicknamesgone, sorry to hear about your situation. Fingers crossed for you for this month, wishing you all the best. Isn’t it weird when it all just comes down to everything seeming to be ok, and no explanation for it not happening? I suppose this has always happened to people but even 30 years ago they probably had no testing, no options, no information, so we should be grateful that there are ways for us to explore what’s happening and have an extra chance.
Doesn’t make it any less frustrating though!

Sending you a big hug, Allchat - also in the 2ww, and also looking at a 7 year gap if it works....and ds also wants a sister, not a brother! Fingers crossed for both of us.

Sheddie - the Duofertility thing is a more accurate/sophisticated way of charting. I never did the charting longhand, but as I understand it, it's very dependent on you remembering to take your temp at exactly the moment you wake up. The monitor takes your temp something like 20,000 times a day, so it takes the human error out of it. Once you've used it for a month or so, it gives you a six day window in advance, when you're likely to be most fertile. You end up with a chart like this - this was a cycle in which I conceived. Sadly, it ended in mc, but there you go. The gap was when the monitor came off in the night (I was camping!).

If you're good at doing the charts, I'm sure it's just as good. I'm a bit of a sucker for a gadget and I bought it on the monthly deal - if I hadn't lost the baby, I'd have stopped paying after 4 instalments. I really liked it....I only stopped when I started the IVF, because it is incompatible. Not sure how it would interact with clomid, for that matter.

Thanks purple, that's really useful to know. I may go for it if I don't get on with the temperature plotting myself. The camping gap made me chuckle!
Hi allchat. Gosh this must be the hardest 2ww wait ever, for you and purple. I really hope it's good news for you both. How lovely it would be for your DD. It's good to know if you go decide to go the private route it happens quite quickly.

Thanks sheddie and doing virtual hand holding with you purple. I'm on first cycle, what about you?

I'm at guys in London and yes there is no waiting list if you pay. I think the standard of care there has been ace. Made it so much easier, but I think I've been pretty lucky on the whole so far.

Testing one week today. Eeekkkk. It's going to crush me if it hasn't worked x

We're completely in sync, Allchat - I'm testing a week today, too. So did you just transfer the one? Did you get the chance to freeze the others? Congratulations on getting so many to blastocyst stage...that's a really good sign.
How are you feeling? It's so hard not to second-guess and over-analyse every sensation at this stage, isn't it?! I'm finding it really hard to concentrate on anything else at the moment.

hi purple. Yes, just transferred one. DH would never entertain thoughts of having twins although I'd secretly have as many as I can take.! One was the safest bet for us though really. What about you?

I've got 2 frozen. That in itself is quite a weird thought.

I could drive myself mad and we all know what the 2ww is like because we've all been there os many times, so I'm trying not to even notice twinges. I think my follicles are actually shrinking back to normal now. That has been the most painful thing. Last night was first time I have't needed to get up in middle of night and pee!

To be honest I have twinges all the bloody time of the month, so I know they can mean everything and also mean nothing if you know what I mean.

I did read a timeline for an embryo and worked out today would be the last day for implantation if it was going to happen because it's day 10. Think that's right isn't it?

My plan is…get to Friday - not long now. Then it's the weekend and they always fly by and then it's just 2 sleeps! easy. We can do it!

I must say, I don't feel pregnant at all and a load of shit has happened the last few days that has left my blood boiling and my pulse racing so that's a bit of a bummer! I keep feeling cold and putting a hot water bottle on my tummy and thinking shit, shouldn't do that is case I roast it.

How are you doing??x

We transferred 3....we've had two failed transfers this year, and this is a last-ditch attempt, so we decided to throw everything at it. We did a fresh cycle in April, had one frosty which we transferred in July. Both were good quality blastocysts, so our consultant recommended "up to 3". Apparently they've never had a case of triplets in a woman of my age (I'm 41) - and neither of us would mind twins at this stage...

Yes, I'm just feeling that my body's settling down after egg collection, too. I was quite battered this time - last fresh cycle I had 5 follicles, from which they extracted 5 eggs. This time I had lots more follicles (10), but only 4 eggs. I felt very bruised and sore after the transfer. It might also have been because I'm on aspirin this time to thin my blood and hopefully help with implantation, so that makes me bruise a bit more.

Interesting about the timeline....I just hope somebody's burrowing in there!

oh purple you've been through the mill this year then. Third time lucky. Everything crossed for you and those 3 beans!

I should think every cycle is very different. Although is all science based, it appears to be down to luck still.

It's been a funny old year. I was very anxious about doing IVF - it seemed so contrary to everything that I am, but it's been much less traumatic physically than I ever expected. Emotionally, it's been a bit of a rollercoaster, but I'm glad we tried and, even if we don't get the results we dreamed of, we can look our little boy in the eye when he's old enough to understand, and tell him we did everything we could to give him the sibling he wanted.

I think you're right: every cycle is different: but I also think they learn about you with every cycle and the tweaks and adjustments might just make the difference.

I'm always very optimistic after my transfer, and really good at being zenlike and doing lots of lovely creative stuff and keeping my stress levels down for the first week or so...I just need to try to maintain it this time, as I can feel little curls of panic starting to rise when I think about test day next week...

My ds is 5 and we've been trying for two years for a second dc.
Ds was conceived the very first month.

I felt we wouldn't have anymore children and we went for tests after only three months of trying. Dh basically has zero viable sperm so how ds happened I've no idea.

Two rounds of icsi Ivf and still no pregnancy. We are so infertile even Ivf won't help us it seems.
The comsultant now thinks I might have endometriosis from my c section which is why our embryos didnt implant and has recommended I have a laparoscopy. I'm in two minds as our embryos were a bit crap really, slow developing, so I can't help feeling that was the likely reason for the failure.

In a position now where we either give up or attempt donor embryos abroad which obviously still won't implant if I have endo.

And I still can't shake the gut feeling that I won't have more children.

Sigh.

It's so very depressing, it's ruined the last two years.

Butterflies - do have the lap. Even if you decide to go with donor eggs abroad, you need to know you're in the best shape to make it work. Otherwise, it's all just chasing rainbows. The lap is a short and pretty trauma-free procedure, and you never know, it might just show up something fixable, like adhesions.
I know men don't always feel the same way about these things, but if you are prepared to consider donor eggs, might you consider donor sperm? If the sperm's the problem, maybe that could be the solution? Sending you a hug. It's miserable, isn't it xxx

Bless you butterflies. Sorry to hear your troubles.

Haven't had endo myself but I second purple in that I think you should strongly consider it. Although after your tough time I can completely understand how having more 'work' downstairs is more than off putting.

Can I ask a question though to you or anyone else? Surely they would have known if you had endo from the very first investigative scan? Why would your consultant only think that now?

I know its hard and of little comfort because having one in a way makes you desperate for another, but hold on tight to the fact you have been blessed with one so far. It seems the odds were stacked against you then and you've already had one little miracle. X

The trouble is the lap costs £4k...
Nhs won't fund as I already have a child.

I do have quite bad ovulation pain now which apparently can be an endo symptom but no other signs.

Our embryos were slow and none went to blastocyst. They said even the best sperm had weird head features (or words to that effect). We had nearly 100% fertilisation but by day 3 they were only 6 or 7 cells and none of the ones we didn't transfer made it to blast which makes me think the transferred ones probably didnt either.

Only a lap would show it, a regular internal wouldnt.

I do wish he had mentioned this before we had spent £10k though, he was all "oh yes it's very common if you've had an emergency c-section." Marvellous.

Sorry to read of other's struggles. X

Crap really? I've got alarm bells ringing in my head now. I could have sworn at the very first scan I had done before I even got to ivf stage they ruled out endometriosis. Plus I had slight wobble before I started treatment and phoned consultant and asked if there was anything else that might be wrong with me that they might not discover until ivf process. (I had very little investigations before ivf). She assured me that there was nothing that would prevent me from having successful ivf treatment. She said any other procedures before hand could only possibly help in regards to natural conception, but not ivf success (if that makes sense).

I did have c section but my periods kill and I have quite heavy bleed. Right, I'm going to do what I preach you should never do. dr google!!!!

Ps. Considering how intelligent a consultant has to be, they are half stupid some of the time!The things you read on this site.

Correction : didn't have c section.

I've spent all night tossing and turning.

I've convinced myself I've got undiagnosed endo and that's the reason for our infertility probs and now I'm convinced ivf has failed. In complete flap.

What's more, I have period pains and they are defo period and not nice early preg cramps. It's too bloody early. Shit.