secondary infertility

[mumtosammy]

i have been trying for a second baby for 2 years with no luck (it took 12 months with DS - he's now 3.8). i've just been referred by my dr to an infertility clinic, as he thinks i'm probably not ovulating (tests have not shown anything else up). anyone else out there had an experience of this? think the next steps will be a hycosy and then clomid, any tips or advice on what to ask at the appointment much appreciated!
anyone else out there struggling with the thought of a growing age gap and sadness that their DS might not have another sibling? also feeling that we're getting further and further away from the 'baby stage', it seems so long ago.
also the process of infertility appointments seems so long! we've already been in the system months having the gp appointments and still not got the hospital date.
anyone else feel like this?

Yes I'd be up for that! The mumsnet thing is a real pain!! I can't believe it's not sorted.

Happy birthday to your LO! How did your 2ww go? You ok? Thx for the advice re gluten. So far so good here though I think I picked up some sort of stomach bug as tummy not been great for the last week and I can't believe that cutting gluten out would make it unsettled! It was fine before!! Day 24 here and certain I have PMT AGAIN! Aaaagh. We tried very hard this month too!

Great hopefully a few more people will want to join.

Such a shame no one appears to be here - I'm assuming it's because of the recent issues with mumsnet. Miss you ladies x

I'm still here loitering :) I found the attached in a magazine at my hospital this morning. Sums it up perfectly!

Not sure about a Facebook group - would it reveal our names to each other?! The thing I like about here is being totally anonymous.

Sapb102 how is your tummy now? Cutting out gluten shouldn't create problems I don't think but I'm no expert. Perhaps your tummy just needs time to adjust to new foods. In which case in the long run perhaps gluten free is a good things for you

That's true closephine85 I'd not thought about being 'nameless' so to speak. So understand your view. I'm happy either way but love the support from here.

That article is very true! I'm struggling with jealousy at the moment. How do you all deal with it? I hate myself for it.

I'm not sure I do deal with it, I just keep quiet. I find myself most jealous of people announcing pregnancy rather than babies being born. I did struggle this year because we went to two weddings in the summer of 2014, both of which I had been expecting to attend pregnant (I had even chosen my meal based on the assumption I would be pregnant and wouldn't be able to eat goats cheese etc) - both brides announced pregnancies before their first year anniversarys. Even though it was their first babies, the speed at which they fell pregnant got to me. However, one bride has now had her baby and I am nothing but pleased for them. I think it's the initial shock (although its never actually a shock as such) that hits me hardest and then I somehow find a way to get over it/get on with it. I may lose the plot of we are still trying when they announce their second pregnancy.

How long have you been trying? 2 years 2 months here. Can't believe we would have an almost 18 month old by now if things had gone to plan :(

The Weddings must of been bitter sweet. It's funny how we unknowingly make plans etc hoping a baby will be on its way soo. 3 years TTC for baby 2. Like you, It's the announcements that get to me too.

Was hard evening last night but actually made me see things differently. A fairly new friend moved to the country in Jan. We have befriend them all year and last night went over for dinner. The wife asked me outright if we were going to have another. I said I'd love one but Mother Nature isn't agreeing and then the tears just rolled. She then said she understood my pain as she had four miscarriages before her two DC. She said she can't understand why it's such a silent subject and if we were all able to talk about it more we would be able to support each other. I think she is right.

hi ladies, sorry i havent been on here in ages. i had some more bad news recently as i had a bfp on the clomid again, but miscarried at 6 weeks.

can't help wondering if the problem is the same thing - ie low progesterone causes me not to ovulate, so i bypass it with clomid, but then the progesterone is too low for the pregnancy to succeed. has anyone heard of anything like this?? or it could just have been bad luck for me again.

anyway my consultant has agreed to have an appointment with me and i can discuss it with her. i know ivf cycles are supported by progesterone, but not sure if it's 'against the guidelines' for clomid cycles... let me know if you know about this. wondering if a private clinic would do it, if nhs wouldn't?

not sure i want to go back into trying again on clomid without more information now... i dont think i could bear to do it all again and have more bad news.

but one positive thing for me is that i can concieve on the clomid (both times i took 100mg) and i have 3 more rounds to go.

hope everyone else is ok. it's the worst waiting game in the world, surrounded by people who dont have to wait.

So sorry to read of your loss, I don't have any experience but I think your point is valid. Is there anyway of getting pogesterone suppostrys yourself to use with clomid? Would too much cause any harm? Just another question for your consultant incase it's not crossed your mind.

Sending you lots of love xx

Hi everyone. I always keep an eye on the thread and just wanted to say to mumtosammy that I'm really sorry to hear about your miscarriage. It must be so heart-breaking to get your hopes dashed again.
On the progesterone point I know a little bit because I was on the pessaries for 10 weeks during my IVF cycle. I don't think there is any danger in being on them. My consultant just said it is the 'belt and braces' approach. I would really push to be put on them if you can.
Like you say at least you know you can get pregnant. The consultant just needs to help you to hang on to them now. Wishing you so much luck. x

I've made it to 24 weeks. Had 4 months of bleeding and a detached placenta but things seemed to have settled. I'm under a consultant and having extra scans etc. Just hope we make it.

Hi mumtosammy, I used progesterone pessaries after my IUI. The fertility clinic only give two weeks supply for IUI so when I got my BFP I stopped using them and miscarried a week later. On my next successful IUI I used progesterone for 12 weeks and now have a DS.

I also took low dose aspirin to help against another miscarriage. Have any medical professionals recommended this to you? It can be prescribed for recurrent loss and although I'd only had one loss I asked my consultant and he said it wouldn't do any harm so I took it until 36 weeks pregnant.

Thanks for your messages everyone.

Laptop, how are you doing at the moment, are you still on the clomid?

Sheddie, thanks for stopping by – and thanks for your message. I’m sorry to hear things have been so difficult with your pregnancy so far, it must have been very stressful. Fingers crossed that things will calm down for you now in the second half of your pregnancy xx

How are you clomipheme?

I’m doing a clomid month again this month, I’m on day 11. The consultant had a really detailed chat with me about my concerns and I feel a bit better now. But… she said there’s no reason to take progesterone. She said it was all just bad luck / chance and that there was no indication it would happen again. So just taking another shot at it all and seeing what happens. Wondering whether to book a private appointment and just get another opinion outside the NHS.
Oh, and she didnt mention aspirin at all... but i'm going to take that anyway as there's no reason not to.

Hi all

MumtoSammy so sorry to hear about your loss. Fingers crossed for you this month and that it was just bad luck

We have had one month of IUI which has failed. My DHs count was very low (3 million) so he is off to see his GP this week to see if we can investigate that a bit further. I'm a bit exhausted with it all to be honest. Im going to call the hospital tomorrow and tell them I need a month off. We will give IUI one more go before Christmas and then in the new year will have to make a decision on whether we want to try IVF I suppose :( people are having babies everywhere at the moment and seemingly so easily. This all just makes me so sad.

hi closephine, thanks.
sorry to hear your iui wasnt successful. totally understand about needing a month off. i had a couple of months off at one point and i felt SO much better afterwards. i think it can end up going on so long month after month of thinking about it all that even a few weeks of not wondering what's going on is enough to make you feel like yourself again!
hope it all goes ok with your dp's sperm analysis.

Sorry to hear about your MC mumtosammy . And your IUI closephine . We have had a few months off at various points over the last 2.5 years, and it can help.

I have been on this thread on/off for a while under a couple of names. DH & I have been trying to have DC3 since January 2013. We had a MMC straight away and since then nothing .

I have had an HSG and ultrasound which were both fine. I'm also having acupuncture and seeing a nutritionist.

Tomorrow is our first appointment with the consultant at the (in)fertility clinic and I am getting very, very anxious! I requested my recent blood work from the GP and have spotted my last progesterone test (taken on CD24, 5 DPO) was 27 nmol/ml - it has been marked with 'to discuss at next OPA). Ominous.

My temperatures show that I did ovulate that month, on CD19, but does a value of 27 mean that my progesterone is low? My temperature does seem to rise very slowly sometimes. Does anyone have any idea of what this might mean?

Canto3 I'm afraid I don't really have any knowledge of progesterone levels. I've never been given any figures just told its 'fine' but perhaps it's not ominous - it might be a good thing to find something wrong and then they can fix it! Pretty sure low progesterone is quite straightforward to fix. Actually just seen your appointment was today, how did it go?

Thanks MumtoSammy - I agree that the month off should hopefully help. Although I am so desperate to get pregnant naturally I might find myself slipping into crazy woman mode in a week or so's time.

Does everyone else find that this is on their mind all day everyday?! I'm finding it particularly bad at the moment as there are literally babies being born all over the place. 2 friends, a cousin and 2 of the mums at nursery all in the last 6 weeks. Surely it's my turn now?

Thanks closephine

As expected, we are at the end of the road as far as the NHS are concerned

Consultant was a registrar down, so we had a 40 minute wait in a roomful of pregnant women. The Dr we saw was nice enough, but more or less said that the next step would be IVF.

When I queried the progesterone value, she said that as long as it is over 20, then ovulation is confirmed (despite the blood test printout saying that anything above 30 confirms ovulation?).

She did however, take blood for an AMH test, and give us an appointment for 2 weeks time. Not sure what the point of that will be.

She did say we're doing all the right things (mindfulness, acupuncture, nutritionist) and that I am not old (yet!). I'm 38.

So, yesterday was a bit teary, but trying to focus on the positives. And trying desperately NOT TO STRESS!

And yes, I completely agree that I seem forever surrounded by pregnant women! I have had 4 DN pregnancy announcements / births since we started TTC and it has been so, so hard.

mumtosammy, wrt clomid: as I understand, the strength of the ovulation is often responsible for the strength of the progesterone, i.e. a good strong ovulation (clomid induced or not) will most likely be followed by a good level of progesterone.

My acupuncturist reckons that this is why progesterone levels can often be a red herring, when in actual fact, the actual ovulation/build up to ovulation can be the real issue. Once that is fixed, then the rest will follow, IYSWIM.

Hi canto, sorry to hear you had a bad day yesterday. Do you think you will go down the ivf route?

DH had his appointment today, he's been prescribed antibiotics as the dr thinks he has an infection in one of his testicles (sorry if tmi!) which obviously needs to be sorted but he doesn't think it would make any major impact on his sperm count. I think he basically said, there's not much that can be done to increase count and that if its not working then we may be looking at ivf too. We will keep going with the IUI for a couple of months just in case though seeing as it's free. I also still don't know how I feel about ivf. Tough decisions ahead.

I stupidly just went on the conception forum. There was a thread on there about ttc number 2 and the women on there were literally all getting their BFPs after a month or two of trying. I was so jealous I almost cried!

Hi closephine. I'm not sure about IVF. I'd like to think that de-stressing, seeing the nutritionist and having acupuncture will be enough, but I am 38 and time is ticking. I don't want to be 4 years down the line and thinking 'what if..?'.

Perhaps we will just think on it for a few months and then see a private consultant for a chat in the New Year. Oh, I don't know. I wish I could just turn it off and not want another baby

hi canto and closephine,
canto, sorry to hear about your appointment not being what you'd hoped for. thanks for your comments about progesterone and clomid - yes, this is the message i got from my consultant too. apparently it's not that i have 'low progesterone' as a problem at all. it's that if you don't ovulate, you dont have the elevated progesterone, so it's just a sign of another problem...
but what i dont have a clue about (and what the nhs dont investigate) is why i'm not ovulating.
i'm wondering whether to get a private consultation to try to investigate this properly, as my consultant is pushing towards ivf too as the next step after this. does anyone have any experience of private consultations and whether they will be able to do different tests? do they investigate different things?
not sure ivf is the answer for me either, i feel your pain.
totally understand about age as well, i'm 37 and even though the consultant says that's not old, i feel so so old since having these problems!
closephine, hope your dh is ok. totally understand about the other pregnancies and feeling it must be your turn... don't go on those forums!! it's torture. just stay away!!
laptop, are you still around? how are you doing?
i'm on d18 of clomid cycle, following doctors orders of every two days, and feeling full of cold, not fun!

canto3, i also meant to say that it's good you got the AMH done, as my consultant wont do that and says it's not standard. (she did an FSH one which i think indicates egg store as it shows how hard the hormone has to work to make an egg release?)
also she has a 6 week waiting list between appointments of any kind, so 2 weeks is good news...

Driving myself nutty this month. Gave ourselves a 'break' from IUI but I've found it worse... I didn't track ovulation so not 100% sure where i am in my cycle (nearing the end of the 2ww I fear), symptom spotting like a crazy woman and just desperate to fall pregnant naturally. Ugh! Some break! Back on the IUI next month :(

How is everyone else?!