Ivf anyone starting stimms next week?

[naty1]

Im starting stimns next week for icsi(dependent on blood test)?
Anyone at the same time want to join.

Im glad its stopped.
Are you using FRER?
When i had it i read you can get implantation spotting it is usually 6-10 dpo but can be up to 12
You can also get spotting from cervix irritation from pessaries.
It def could be too early for non first morning testing.

I spoke to the nurses and they said i should have appt in apr and that can be a planning appt too.
I asked about the spotting and she said you can have injections instead (but not that it would stop that, but i belive with injections you can gave blood tests to test levels)
I also asked about menopur vs gonal f for pcos but she didnt know

I will remember that tip about lots of water during my 2ww Nat. That is, if I even make it that far with my measly 5 follicles.

I am frustrated with my clinic. I wanted to do a day 2 scan before I started the meds so I could make a decision if I would go ahead with IVF this cycle as my AFC varies from one cycle to the next. But they couldn't fit me in until day 4 so I had to start and pay for the meds. The accounts lady told me I could just take one box of meds and then don't need to pay for the rest if the cycle is cancelled. So yesterday I ask my nurse for a repeat scan on Wed so I can make a decision before my first box of meds runs out and now she tells me I will be charged for all the medications anyway regardless if I have picked them up or not! Trying to ring the clinic to clarify and I just keep getting put through to voice messages.

Telling myself not to stress but the clinic is making it impossible! Grr.
So currently I am booked in for another scan on Friday. Of course I am hoping that a few more follicles have appeared but I know that is never the case for me.

Suzy, I am glad for you that the spotting has stopped. Is spotting normal before your period or does this give you some hope that it could be the baby implanting? Your period is official due tomorrow right.

I know they stress doesnt impact too much. But when you keep only gaving 2 embies the stress is bound to be higher.

Did either of you have hcg put in with the embryo transfer to help implantation?

April will come around quickly Naty, IVF seems to be more about waiting than anything else! I didn't have hcg at transfer no.
I suppose Friday is going to be an important scan Shellster? If it's not the result you want does that mean you will have to postpone it will you still go ahead?
I'm 8 days past transfer and the brown spotting is back and getting heavier. I don't think it's implantation bleeding I am totally avoiding testing now as I don't want to admit failure just yet

So you dont usually have spotting?
I do usually have a short luteal phase.
I wondered for me if as ive already had a baby the pessaries arent as effective as no muscle tone to hold them in.
They can themselves cause spotting from irritation to cervix.
Im def having injections of progesterone next time if i can so they can test my levels
IMO maybe spotting can be caused by having really high progesterone after the op but that will naturally drop downto your level or the supplements

I normally have a couple of days spotting but that's always red. I think there are a few possible reasons for the spotting now but the most probable one is AF is around the corner.
I can deal with it but telling my mum she's never be a grandma is going to kill me

I think its supposed to be better if it is brown.
Mine was pink.
Brown is meant to be old blood.
So you are testing tomorrow?

Nat, no I didn't have HCG put in with the embryo to help implantation. I've never even heard of that. I am at a new clinic and not up to the ET part yet so I shall see. That being said, I don't even know that I will make it to ET with Mondays scan showing just 5 follicles. I don't know whether to hold on to desperate hope so that I don't get stressed and then come crashing down hard at Fridays scan, or whether to just accept now that this isn't going to work and have a good sob. So I just want Fridays scan over with so I can process the reality.

To answer your question suzylee, not sure if I will postpone or go ahead if there are only 5 follicles on Friday still. I really wanted a scan before I started the drugs and if that had of shown only 5 follicles, I would have postponed. But they couldn't fit me in until after I started the drugs and now that I have started, it seems a waste of money to cancel mid way through. Plus, my body takes some months to recover from IVF and I don't want to have to wait more months while I continue to age. But I remember you had 17 follicles and only got one day 5 embryo, so what's my chances of having one embryo when I only start with 5! I am really annoyed at the clinic for not being able to fit me in to have the scan done on day two before I started the injections. Just have to wait till Friday now and see.

I am so sorry to hear about your spotting. I wish there was more I could say to help you as I know the pain all too well. I think I remember you saying you were going private if this funded IVF didn't work. Is that still your plan?

I think there is an element of compromising the care of the people they treat by having so many customers.
Ie dor me having to wait 6 weeks to see a consultant.
I know on my 1st cycle we had taken months 9m to get to actually do op between trying to freeze sperm and our consultant was away when we would have had an appt meaning a 3m wait we ended up seeing him privately for £200 so not to wait.
Shell have you had more on other baseline scans?

Just to let you know AF arrived and a bfn too I'm more upset than I thought I would be!
Now I need to raise some £££'s quick so I can try again
Hope all is well with you both

That's the only thing that has got me through each IVF suzylee - the back up plan of another one. Your body did amazing to get 13 eggs and for 5 to get to day 5. I know that 4 didn't make it (and well obviously the 5th didn't make it either ) but that is a much better result than most others who go through IVF and gives me hope for you that you were just unlucky and have a high chance of it working next time. At 40, I am sure the doctors will be quick to say that the eggs are a problem. I have been doing many things since my first IVF to improve egg quality and I have seen an improvement in embryo quality with each of my IVF's which gives me hope to go on. Take some time to process your emotions and when you are ready and if you like, I am happy to share all the things I have researched to help improve egg quality. It also helps to feel like you are working towards your next IVF success rather than focusing on the failed one.

I think you are right Nat that care is compromised by number of patients. My old clinic was much smaller and they didn't have technology to do ultrasound guided transfer and also had trainees doing transfer which is why I changed clinics. But because they were smaller, they were much more flexible. But new clinic is so large that I am just a number and they are so rigid with their systems and protocols that my requests can't be tailored for. To answer your question - I had a whopping 15 antral follicles at my last day 2 IVF scan. So yes, that's much more than this cycle with only 5! My dreaded second scan is tomorrow at 7.15am. I feel like I know it's going to show just 5 follicles and I am going to want to run out to my car so I can have a big sob and I am not looking forward to that heartache so I just want it over with.

I feel so lucky that I have found you both to chat to. Some IVF threads have so many people that your post gets overlooked. It's so nice to chat on a thread with just the three of us who all understand the emotions of IVF.

Is it your scan today or has it happened already? The time difference confuses me still!
If it's inly 5 does that just give you a lower chance if success or is it more serious?
Naty, I guess it's just another round of the waiting game for us although I have just been looking through "be my parent" and thinking about adopting. It truly is an emotional roller coaster and I have no idea what I am doing!

Shellster, is IVF as expensive over there as it is here?

Suzy im so sorry it hasnt worked. :(

I think adoption is a very difficult thing to do.
We watched the program about the adoption parties and felt awful for the kids.
But then came on MN and read the discussion about the program. People were saying you dont get a baby (which i knew) but also that the kids have been emotionally/physically abused or have learning difficulties like ASD. They were saying the testing is so tough because they are checking you can parent a damaged child.(i didnt see why it should be so tough as you can go and have a baby naturally or via ivf without any checks and you can never be 100% sure no matter what checks you do)
But of course these people may not really know or be exaggerating
We had to consider if we wanted donor sperm backup but decided against it, i dont know what we would have decided if we had had no fertilisation. I think i would have gone with donor if OH had let me. Due to concerns of nature/nurture, with donor you get a newborn so avoid any environment issues and just (possibly) deal with the genetic ones.

But they may not say its the eggs after all you got a lot and a blastocyst.
I was reading about 50% eggs are genetically abnormal under 35 and this rises to 90% after 40. But im not sure at what stage they would be abnormal, whether they would get to blast or not (i presume they must still possibly be abnormal or if a blast is put back they would know it was an implantation issue.)
But then averages are just that (unusual for a 30 year old to have a very low sperm count but my OH does)
From my go i had 2 embies so i presume that means 1 would probably be nomal but maybe neither (or both hence twins) and then on top of that even if 1/2 were normal some normal ones just dont implant due to implantation issues.

I wonder though if you have 2 blasts next time would they let you put both back?
My clinic only ever does 1 blast i think.

I have started spotting again i think im on cd13 no idea what is going on (ive still felt really bloated since ivf so dont think my lining really shed so this may be it also never had any cramps

I'm not sure how long it takes to recover from IVF but I'm sure all the drugs must mess your cycles up for more than a few weeks, hopefully that's all it is with you.
I can't decide what to do next. Try again myself or use a donor egg maybe? It's a hard thing to fail at once so another failure is almost an unbearable thought.
I work for a fostering agency so I have inside knowledge on adoption which will be handy if I go down that route. I feel sorry for people that adopt without realising the full implications, you are right in everything you said about it.
Hope Shellsters ok

Hi Naty and suzylee. Sorry for the long post. Just wanting your objective opinnion of what you would do in my situation and want to give you a summary

• Sep 2013. IVF cycle. I started with 5-6 follicles that produced 5 eggs. Failed IVF.
• Study shows Aspirin thins blood and gets extra blood to ovaries and increases follicle count.
• Take Aspirin for one cycle and had a day two scan the following cycle and still only had 5-6 antrals. Don't start IVF.
• Got a day 2 scan the following cycle and I had a whopping 15 antrals. Perhaps my ovaries just needed an extra month to recover from IVF or it just took that long for Aspirin to kick in.
• Go ahead with IVF again after only two cycle break but my left ovary was still sore from the Oct IVF and only 1 of the 8 follicles grew on my left side. But I got 5 eggs from the initial 6-7 follicles on my right ovary and one egg from my left. Great embryo but BFN. So close.
• Current cycle. Only start with 6 follicles despite taking Aspirin. Why?
• I did stop the Aspirin for two weeks and only took it for the last ten days in the lead up to this IVF. Could this be the reason.
• Seems odd that Aspirin worked last time and didn't work this time. Perhaps if I forgo IVF and take it continuously, I will have more follicles (and hence more eggs) for IVF next cycle.

If I go ahead, it could work and be over with. But with only 3 eggs, and then the sperm might not work to fertilise one (or even two), odds are obviously much lower. They will also do a day 3 transfer with less than 4 embryos. I would prefer a day 5. If it doesn't work, I will have to wait some months for my ovaries to recover from egg retrieval as well as save again and it drags on. If I stop now and don't have egg retrieval and continue with Aspirin, I MIGHT have more follicles next cycle and it won't be such a long wait.

Need to DEMAND a day 2 scan next time and not have them start me on meds blindly on day 2 because they can't fit me in for a scan until day 4. If I had of been told I only had 5-6 follicles before I started the drugs this cycle, I would have definitely waited. It's just that now I have started the drugs and have paid deposit so I feel committed. I can then do a day two scan over the next couple of cycles and see if I get a higher follicle count. If not, at least I know and I will go ahead with IVF with a lower count. But the Aspirin worked so well last time, so I can't see why it wouldn't have the same effect again if I take it continuously instead of just 10 days like I did the cycle before this IVF cycle. I just want this over with and would love it to be over with in 3 weeks time with a BFP but do you think I should wait?

Sounds to me like waiting would be the better option but it's so hard when you are so desperate to get it done.
In my opinion you know your body better than anyone and I think you already know the answer. Give yourself the best chance possible
Have you considered donor eggs or is that a no go for you?

I can see why you cant decide as you dont know if you wait whether you will definitely have more, though it sounds like you might.
If you wont lose too much money ...
But egg quality declines quickly too. If you keep waiting.

I read somewhere walking can increase blood flow to uterus too.
I think i saw doing ivf too close together might not get such a good response but they still said only 1 cycle between as if you kept waiting the egg quality decrease especially as you get older means its less worthwhile waiting.

Would they suggest donor eggs or sperm or dont they think the abnormal sperm matter once they fertilise?

In some ways its kind of ironic we are at opposite end i have so many eggs coming up they cant get a reasonable number so i am left with 2 embies. And you get too few. They really need to refine this process to get a better number for each patient

Dont forget i did get pg with just 2 embies (only 1 goodish one) so its not all about numbers of eggs although im sure it would be a lot less stressful and amazing to get some frosties.
I wonder how much more likely the people who get some frosties are to get pg.

I might consider asking to take my 1/2 to blast next time. (I think possibly they dont want people to know they havent made it to blast because you wouldnt keep going back for treatment if you never got past that stage. But then that would be 1 blast vs putting back 2 embies. Too many decisions!

Does anyone know if swimming in an indoor heated pool would affect sperm count?

Good luck - there is no right answer as you dont know how many you would get if you wait.... But if youre already regretting starting you may get angry with yourself /them

Naty, you know a lot about egg quality and I know very little. I quietly turned 41 last week and I think maybe an egg donor would give me a better chance. Obviously I would prefer my own but I wouldn't think less of a donor egg.
What's your honest opinion? They say me and my uterus are healthy enough for me to carry a baby still

I expect they will be able to give you an idea at your review appt. they might say about the look of the eggs and embryos
I suppose age is quality of eggs but also that a lot of older people wouldnt get many eggs.
The success have gone up at my clinic in the last few years under 35 45%
40-42 23%
Which has i think doubled from about 10%
I think i have seen 60% with donor.
I guess it is possible but may take a few goes and a bit of luck.
I mean even with my 45% chance that is going to take at least 2 goes. I would have to say after another go ive given myself 90% chance it working and if it hasnt another go wont help. Of course i dont think with the few eggs/ embies i am getting that 45% chance each time as they arent picking the best only giving all i have left.

I would want to know the chances once you get to blast stage (i have seen 60% but dont know what age range that was for)
Also was it unusual for so many to arrest and be left with 1 blast, is it bad luck or quality etc
. my friend had lots arrest on day 3 only leaving 2 at day 3(1became a baby) but the next time with a different trigger and were left with 5at day 3 of which 2 put back on day 3 and 2 were frozen as blasts. So the meds can make a difference or maybe different cycles get different numbers

It's really hard knowing when to stop. I keep seriously thinking about adoption but then when I look online embryo adoption comes up but then I think just an egg donor would be enough but then again why not try again with my own egg?!? If only we could see into the future.

I think it's easier for me as I don't have any children so I don't know the mother and baby bond. It's easier for me to accept if that makes sense? I could adopt and I wouldn't know that it felt different

Thank you both so much for taking the time to give your opinion on my long winded rant! I made the decision to cancel. Was more upsetting than I expected as it felt like I was saying goodbye to my 3 future little babies.

suzy the cost of IVF at my current clinic is around $5500 per cycle. No, donor eggs isn't an option for me (at the moment). I have done SO MUCH research and would like to apply this to one or two more IVF's before I can be at peace that I have tried everything.

Nat, thanks for the walking tip - will exercise every day in the lead up to next IVF! You are right about it being a hard call to cancel because egg quality declines with age. I know from my history if this IVF had of failed, I will have to wait months for my body to recover, as my ovaries are tender after IVF and don't respond when I only have two cycle break. So better to cancel now before ER and then do IVF in just 3 weeks time, as opposed to having failed IVF and then having to wait several months. Do they think abnormal sperm matter? Haven't asked, I guess because I only want hubby's sperm anyway. From my own research, it seems that if egg doesn't fertilise, it's a sperm issue but once it does then it's all up to the egg. Makes sense as I have done work to improve eggs and seen improvement over each of 3 IVF's.

When are both your upcoming IVF appointments again? Has your husband said any more Nat about giving IVF one more go?

Oh, and Nat, I remember reading a study on 11 couples who were getting IVF for male factor issues. The men all took hot saunas or spas and after abstaining for 6 months, 6 of the 11 men had drastic sperm improvement. The other 5 were chronic smokers anyway. But that doesn't really answer your question about a heated pool. I guess as long as the pool temp is below the ideal testicular/sperm production temperature, that would be okay?

Thats what im thinking it could be too warm for testicles. Would probably be fine with a normal count.

So you dont think the drugs you have taken so far will affect next cycle already?

Im still spotting. I had thought ovulation spotting but now i dont. Hope i dont now have bleeding every 2 weeks.
I sorted out my metformin (little help from gp) went down to lower dose more tablet and slow release... Hopefully no more upset tummy
Our review is in mid april. He has come round a bit but i suppose it may depend on what the review is like.

Hello. Swimming pool should be fine - usually around 30 degrees - body temp is 36, so a bit cooler. The reason they recommend against baths is because a warm bath is usually about 40-42 degrees.