Yasmin Alibhai-Brown on the burka

[mrsruffallo]

Have to say I agree with her. She makes an eloquent case against the burka, and the dilemma facing liberals in Europe on this issue.

I also think that it s important to have a female muslim arguing this point- so many people who argue against the burka withi8n our society are accused of intolerance or of being anti muslim when this is patently not the case.

Link?

What did she say?

Oops sorry
here

Agree that what is missing from the debate is the voice of Muslim women. I'm generally alarmed by the idea of a ban on the burka -surely everybody should be free to wear whatever they choose. The question is are women choosing the burka or is it being imposed on them?

BUMP

I'm not sure that everyone should always be free to choose. As a society we have a concept of law which basically means that we have decided that for our society to work, some choices and courses of action are not acceptable. For the reasons very eloquently expressed by Ms Alibhai-Brown, we need to consider whether as a society we find this choice acceptable. Personally, I am not sure that I do - I am not sure that I want what the Burka represents to be absorded into the culture of western europe.

I find myself siding with the Belgian view on this one. Not banning certain clothing through legislation, but to be very unhappy with the more general concept of mask-wearing in public. It goes beyond religious expression or freedom of choice and into a very deep Western societal taboo surrounding covering of the face. In some societies it is considered offensive to show the soles of the feet. In our society, masks are either a symbol of the secretive - masked balls, theatre, carnival - or sinister - IRA men, bank robbers. Covered heads, colourful hair, lavish make-up, outrageous clothing... anything else goes. But I think it is disrespectful to the prevailing culture to insist upon face-covering.

spot on.

Absolutely ridiculous.

This woman makes no sense. Her 'shalwar kameez' wearing friend refused to be served by a lady wearing a niqab.

She makes out this is a good thing.

Who decides which is more acceptable?

This sort of thing makes me cross. It's a personal decision that is none of anyone else's business!!

It IS a good thing. Moderate muslim woman standing up to niqab. Something we can openly do in the UK thank God!

tums I think the difference is that a salwar kameez is a state of dress that allows modest self expression whereas a niqab removes identity. There is no social barrier in the former which many find to be the case with the latter.

That's your opinion muminbeds. Who said niqab removes identity?

Are saying all these women walking around in burkas are nobodies?

I guarantee the majority of people on this thread {including yasmin a-b)do not know a lady who wears a burkha on a personal basis.

What's a moderate muslim then slim22?

So what Riven?
If it is all about personal choice and nothing else, as you often argue, then why should it count if she chooses not to wear any form of headscarf?

Erm, that's kind of the point Tums, women who cover up rarely mix within wider society

Why not write a piece and send it in to a few places?

A new career in journalism awaits

Exactly Riven...I personally don't think Yasmin A.B is giving a full Islamic perspective given that, afaik, she's never covered - you need to at least experience it to understand it

What a strange attitude
Do you expect women who wear the burka or any kind of head covering to take it off so they can experience how other women feel without it?

Well maybe she is not giving a full perspective but she is making her voice heard.
Please feel free to write a letter to the editor and make your point.You do have the freedom to do so.

Would you say that any muslim media would let my voice be heard on an open forum if I wanted to convince niqab wearers not to?
No, because not only wouldn't they give me the basic courtesy of reciprocity, but I would be immediately branded a depraved harlot with no authority whatsoever as surely, I couldn't be muslim "enough" to dare to speak up.

Message withdrawn

Of course she is not giving the 'full Islamic perspective' she is giving her own personal perspective, as we all do.

Personally I don't feel that banning the burka is the right thing to do, because it feels wrong and is probably counterproductive in any case. But I do think that there has to be something fundamentally wrong when free women choose to hide their faces, or are forced to do so. It goes against all my ideas as to what is good about living in a country where men and women should be equal (and I am not saying that they are completely so, sadly there is a long way to go yet). So whether the covering is to feel comfortable and avoid male eyes (when it should be men changing if the impact is to make women feel that they have to hide, not women hiding to feel safe) or because of fear of reprisal or because of religious conviction (and this one I find incredibly hard to understand because it is such a glaring example of patriarchal oppression masquerading as something benevolent - I stopped being a Christian for much smaller offense, and there are many other interpretations that allow for overt devotion to be shown without face hiding with no requirement for following any orthodoxy - as an ex-catholic the lack of a hierarchical priesthood is one of the things I like about Islam) it just doesn't seem right.

But of course that is only my personal conviction. I'm not sure if this is a debate best held by women, as this is a feminist issue, or Muslims as this is a religious issue, or everyone as this is a human rights issue. But good and important to have many voices I think.

I agree mainly with nooka,
Nooka, can I asked why you stopped being Christian? you don't have to answer, obviously.

And I do think that banning the burqua is a bad thing because the gov't dictating to women like this just yet another way of enforcing control over them, whether its her father, her husband or the elusive paternal 'patriarchal' state.

Although, the post about mask-wearing was interesting too.