Venables - one of the James Bulger killers - back in jail

[LadyBlaBlah]

here

Not a good advertisement for the rehabilitation programme they went on. I did hear that it was in Ireland and he tried to strangle a girlfriend..........but obviously that is not based on any factual evidence, just internet gossip.

Anyhow, difficult difficult difficult

The other things that nobody is responding to is:

So we know TV may well have not responded to rehab dependent on circs

Why are people saying rehab can never work when the relase of this info and none about the otehr byoung man suggests rehab has so far worked then?

What we need to find out is what the diference between TV and the other lad were and how that can be learned from.

If of course TV's crime was related: it may well not have been significant or could even been a result of the crime (with a complete lack of any knowledge at all and no likelihgood its as valid (ie not at all) to assume TV got into drugs through grief at actions and that is what he's in for, as he committed a violent incident.

A fair few x posts there!

Well unfortunately that is the strength of feeling or bile that I and many others feel towards these two.
Where they lived was a very rough area, but it was also a tight knit community and if they were failed then the state who is claiming to be able to rehabilitate these murders is also responsible for allowing the parents to behave in a way that desensitized them to the extent they could murder a baby despite admitting they did know the difference between right and wrong.

Those boys knew that they were doing wrong. They lied to every adult that questioned what they were doing with James Bulger and they tried to disguise what they had done to him by leaving him on the train tracks. Remember that Thompson and Venebles were 200 yards from a police station when they murdered James and could have handed him over at anytime. They were both in the police station within an hour of the murder and could have confessed. Venebles' mum even admonished him for staying out be because he could have been taken by the same monster that took James. She had to persuade him to confess because he knew that the truth would upset her.

Those boys knew that they were doing wrong and that's why they were tried as adults. They knew that there would be consequences if they were caught. Perhaps more consessions could have been made in court with barristers not wearing wigs etc but I don't think an 8 year minimum sentence is unreasonable for children who knew that there would be serious consequences to their actions.

Chickens
The rehabilitation process is supposed to ensure, as far as possible, our safety.

As the parent of the victim, how can Denise Fergus ever feel justice has been done? I'm sure I wouldn't unless these boys met as horrific an end as James did.

We do not live in a society where that is a possibility though, and rightly so.
If we did give victims the responsibility of deciding punishment, my Grandfather would have chopped off the theives hands who stole his golf clubs

Thanks for the face. I think I've managed to follow the thread.

Milly's "Shoot them in the face" bit was awful, and of course I don't agree with that stance; the implication on this thread appears to be that one can either be a "Bleeding heart liberal" or a "Daily Mail reading idiot"

Sorry, but I don't agree with that.

What is clear is that Venables has breached his license, for whatever reason this is of some concern, no? (ugh, I hate that little no? at the end, isn't it patronising?)

I am surprised no one has mentioned the Norway case yet. I agree with others saying that the boys were only ten and should not have been tried as adults.

I am also assuming this is a case that has been blown out of proportion and they have probably done something small breaching licence conditions. They are not allowed to share details so lets terrify everyone that a protected child killer has been waiting 17 years to do the same. I also feel sorry for any 27 year old man who has been arrested in the past few days, they won't get an easy time in prison will they?

Also this might be a stupid question but would they lose the right to the new identities if it was another child murder at this stage?

Norway case

I suppose perhaps we should take heart that Venables was obviously being monitored, and that the system works in that he has been taken back in to custody. It sounds as if he was on a short leash, so to speak.

It is of concern, but it really could be anything. He could have missed a probation appointment, stepped foot into Merseyside, contacted someone in his family, or the Bulger family, or Thompson. He could have told someone his true identity. As Peachy said, he could have taken drugs to blank out what he did. He could have committed a minor crime, like not paying council tax. He could have been "about to commit a crime" according to the BBC. It could literally be anything. His lawyer has been quoted as saying he would have put money on Venables not being the one to reoffend.

I do think there does need to be a statement regarding the reason he has been recalled, I don't think that should affect his anonymity. All that has been achieved with their vague statement is that they've stirred up a media storm.

Agree, Allidon. Not stating why he has been recalled just leads to speculation.

Quick question, if he has been returned to custody, does that mean that his new identity will be compromised? Will he have to get another one?

Thanks for the link HellBent, I hadn't heard of that case before, it's very interesting to read the different approach used.

What Norway case hellbent?

WIth regard to losing their new identities if the offence they're back in jail for was severe, well I would assume that they would be facing a very long stretch in prison if that were the case. But I would hope that the new identity would never be revealed because those now close to them (girlfriend for example) would be adversely affected through no fault of their own?

Yes Chickens, that is part of the problem. The lack of information (which is necessary to protect his identity) whips everyone up into a frenzy.

I'm wondering, what if (hypothetically) Denise Fegus herself contacted Venables? She has talked in the past about how she tracked down Thompson (but didn't make contact), and wanted to track down Venables. If she herself made contact, would that still be a breach of his licence?

HellBent that is really thought provoking.

Siljes mother must be an amazing woman, I am almost certain I would be unable to show such compassion in her position.

*Fergus

MillyMooMoo I don't think anyone particularly wanted to know the graphic details of the case as you thought fit to post earlier down the thread.

I had to study this as part of my criminology at Uni and it still makes me feel sick and shaken. I have to really strive hard to get the images out of my head, I probably need a bit of counselling myself. Anyone who had even the tiniest bit of involvement in this case is scarred by the details and cruelty of it all.

Those boys, they may have been only 10, but I have never ever heard of such evil, such viciousness or callousness. Just because one is a child doesn't make that child incapable of evil acts.

I will never forget this case as long as I live and I wasn't even directly involved. I thought I was unmovable as a student, I thought I had seen and heard it all. But this one case made me turn my back on law.

My initial reaction is that they should never ever have been released. That isn't my head talking however. I don't know what kind of men these boys have grown up to be, but I suspect that one cannot carry out such vile and evil acts and then be rehabilitated enough to lead normal lives. These boys never knew what a normal life was, violence and cruelty was normal for them and I fear it may always be so.

So we are now comparing 6 year olds with 10 year olds.

The age of criminal responsibility has be decided, if that needs reviewing then fine but we can safely assume that Venables has done something wrong and is now 27 years old. We will probably never know what and if he is released an absolute fortune will be spent finding him a new identity and if he does something else wrong we'll just rinse and repeat.

I have to say that I'm not comfortable with Denise bulger's writings on this either.

Now, no-one can ever imagine what she has gone through, but tweeting on a public internet sight that (from the sun) "Denise Fergus spoke out on her Twitter site: "Would like to let everyone know jon venables is where he belongs tonight behind bars this is my sons justice.".

I had read somewhere that it was actually Denise Bulger who first broke the story on twitter and this is why it had to be confirmed.

Even as the victim it was not up to her to make this information public and whip up a frenzy.

Milly it was seen as a good comparison when I was studying it and it has been brought up on the threads about the boys in Doncaster.

HellBent, the Norway case has no comparisons with the Bulger case. They did not show the same planned cruelty or twistedness. The only levels of cruely I have heard of since the Bulger case was the Doncaster case. Two boys, similar ages.

This was planned, they had brought equipment, this was vicious and nasty and cruel beyond belief. That little boy suffered such horror that I daren't think about it. I don't know how Jamie's mum lives from day to day, because I can barely think about the details for a second.

Rhubarb I think it's important that when discussing these matters the details are remembered actually because it's far too easy to see two little boys who couldn't peer over the doc, I appreciate what you are saying but it makes my blood boil, my parents were out looking for Jamie around Liverpool, my dad physically threw up when he was found that was the strength of feeling and we lived 20 miles away.

Is she not being as dignified as you think she should be WannaBe??

Like you say, you can't imagine what she's been through...

Well Hellbent I think you are wrong, or whoever taught you was wrong to compare the two cases, I see very little in common.