Venables - one of the James Bulger killers - back in jail

[LadyBlaBlah]

here

Not a good advertisement for the rehabilitation programme they went on. I did hear that it was in Ireland and he tried to strangle a girlfriend..........but obviously that is not based on any factual evidence, just internet gossip.

Anyhow, difficult difficult difficult

Allidon I genuinely do not know how you can feel that way about those two at all.
I can only assume you didn't read the eye witness reports and see the CCTV footage and have never seen his mother interviewed because I would happily shoot the pair of them between the eyes.

'Another point being that friends of ours were looking to adopt a child, happy to consider an older child, basically social services told them that by the age of 3 the damage was done and any hope of a normal family life as a child or adult was relatively small.'

So now we are writing off 3yo children who have had difficult backgrounds as damaged and with no hope of overcoming these difficulties?
If my failure to accept that makes me a 'bleeding heart liberal' then I am happy to accept that label, frankly.

I agree with you MillyMolly, Jamies Mum has to relive those details every day of her life and they are relevant to this story.

You might think they're unhelpful hideous details MoreCrack, but they are what happened and not to be conventiently brushed under the carpet just because they're not very nice.

Gaahhhh!

I don't care whether they were 10 or 18, they committed the most horrific crime and I think the details should be remembered Allidon (can't see the reason you reported Milly's post as she stated the facts ) so that now this monster has been sent back to jail (and I am sure that decision was not taken lightly) all you lot who seem to care more about the 'poor' murderers instead of that defenceless little boy can perhaps start to realise that EVEN children capable of that type of violence are just too fucked up to be 'rehabilitated' and should never again walk the streets freely as the safety of the rest of society should be deemed as more important than THEIR right to a free life.

I never did understand why the feelings of the victims/victims families are not taken into account when deciding on a punishment for crimes in this country after all they are the ones who are affected not the judge and jury and we call ourselves civilised - I think we have gone too far down that road!

Allidon you should think yourself lucky that you have a choice in whether you WANT to know the details of James' death. That was probably unavoidable for his mother.

"Allidon I genuinely do not know how you can feel that way about those two at all.
I can only assume you didn't read the eye witness reports and see the CCTV footage and have never seen his mother interviewed because I would happily shoot
the pair of them between the eyes."

It's called empathy Milly.

Because while it is possible to feel horror for the crime they committed, it is equally possible to question how it is that two children ended up so damaged in the first place that they were driven to commit this crime. And to acknowledge that this is not the normal behavior of children, and that there must have been something seriously wrong.

If this was an adult who had killed this child then it is perfectly easy to see why they should never have been released. But to suggest that ten year old children feel and think and act and should be treated as adults is frankly just as disturbing as what they did.

If ten year old children are to be treated as adults then why do we not allow them to drink, or drive, or have sex, or get married or vote? The answer is simple - it's because they are too young to do those things responsibly. Yet when a ten year old commits a crime like this they are suddenly expected to take responsibility in the same way as adults. Why is this?

Having some amount of 'compassion' and attempting to understand how a situation like his could happen does not leave one unable to feel agony and compassion for James and his parents, Bigmomma

MCTH - Agreed

Milly You would shoot a child between they eyes? Well then that makes you no better than them, i am shocked, actually no i'm not, you'd bring back the death penalty too huh?! The DM forum is that way >>>>>>>> i think you took a wrong turning.

X posts with wannabe.
Excellently put.

I see them as two seperate things if that makes sense.

I feel sad that a beautiful little boy, the same age as mine, had to suffer such unimaginable torture before he died, and that his mother will never get over the pain of knowing what happened to her baby. I cannot imagine the pain she feels.

I also feel sad that two little boys had such a childhood that what they did was normal to them. I feel sad that some people can't accept that children are capable of change and deserve a chance. I feel sad that we can't accept the responsibility that perhaps something should have been done long before they took James. I feel sad that there are adults in this country who saw fit to hurl stones at two children who were on their way to an adult court where they shouldn't have been, and somehow think that makes them better people than those children.

It is possible to be capable of both.

BM3 'Allidon you should think yourself lucky that you have a choice in whether you WANT to know the details of James' death. That was probably unavoidable for his mother.'

This is so true, and I would go as far as to say it's our duty to know what the details of such heinous crimes committed by children so we can be provoked into stopping them from happening again.

Unfortuntately what those boys did to Jamies tiny little body hasn't stopped it from happening again, just look at the Doncaster case.

WannaBe said it better.

I reported the post not becuase I didn't think it was factual, but because I thought the level of detail was excessive, the same as I would report a post giving graphic details of abortion in an abortion debate.

Actually, I believe that some of the details of the crime posted on this thread are not true. For that reason, the post should probably be removed.

Drinking alcohol, having sex and getting married at the age of 10 is seen as being determental to the well being of the 10 year itself.
At the end of the day my 9 year old couldn't listen to a baby cry without it distressing her and her wanting to help it. These two dragged a baby from his mother, sobbing all the way and tortured him, they didn't accidentally give him a blow to the head and kill him quickly or accidentally hurt him take him back and try to lie their way out of it. They continuously listened to him crying and carried on and on and on hurting him.
Where's the empathy there ?

WannaBe put's it well.

This

'If ten year old children are to be treated as adults then why do we not allow them to drink, or drive, or have sex, or get married or vote? The answer is simple - it's because they are too young to do those things responsibly. Yet when a ten year old commits a crime like this they are suddenly expected to take responsibility in the same way as adults. Why is this?'

I guess it's easier just to pretend they are aminals that question why.

Yes agree do not post details of the attack fgs. We all know what happened. There is no need to type it all up again.

I feel very sorry for the Denise Bulger. I don't think she has ever been able to move on from this (as if you could) and news like this must bring it all screaming back.

God knows whether you could be rehabilitated from this. I don't know enough about it to warrant having an intelligent opinion. However although I would resist calling someone instrinsically 'evil', I am not sure how someone could be 'fixed'.

Milly, do you not wonder why those boys didn't have the necessary empathy?

' Will you listen to yourselves, who has a three year old, how tall is that child, who was thrown on rail tracks like a piece of rubbish.
Jamie didn't suck his thumb or cry for his mum or being terrified in his final hours I suppose unlike the two criminals ?
Am hiding this now I cannot believe the reactions.

I have a two year old (alpmost) and a very vulnerable asd 6 yerar old who has been hurt badly before: I also have a ten year old and as such I can see the real picture but also that being ten does not make you an adult.

The details of the murder are well known.

Re hashing them in tabloid style on this thread to add weight to your opinion is inappropriate imo.

Allidon - Why would she? That'd mean that everything isn't black and white, good and evil.

Better to ignore the uncomfortable bits and get on with stoning children.

Spiced, I'm not saying this is how I think, but I can understand why some people see those 10 year old boys as animals, because at the time they acted like monsters.

The bit about throwing stones at their prison van was society showing its rage at the things they had done to a little boy. I'm not sure I blame them.

milly they were ten. Even if you take their horrific upbringings out of the equasion, ten year olds do not experience empathy in the same way as adults. In fact there is research that suggests that younger children experience empathy more strongly than pre teens and teens.

You, on the other hand, are an adult. (aledgedly).

Nobody is defending Thompson or Venables' action's Milly. Nobody is claiming the crime was not horrific in the extreme.

What, then, is the purpose of your continued elaboration on the horrifying details?

Whatever, they were children however you want to look at it they were.

I understand it too, doesn't mean i don't challenge it. Where would we be if everyone said yeah well they have a point.

Sometimes it is black and white and I don't actually generally agree with the death sentence because it's too easy to make mistakes and the criminal justice system isn't foolproof, however life should mean life and if rehabilitation is possible well I am sure we can find something useful for these two to do behind bars.
They gave up the right to share oxygen with me and every other law abiding citizen the day they murder a baby and I would say exactly the same about Mary Bell and I believe she hasn't had so much as a speeding ticket in 20 years.