Venables - one of the James Bulger killers - back in jail

[LadyBlaBlah]

here

Not a good advertisement for the rehabilitation programme they went on. I did hear that it was in Ireland and he tried to strangle a girlfriend..........but obviously that is not based on any factual evidence, just internet gossip.

Anyhow, difficult difficult difficult

I actually don't have a problem with the victim's mother saying whatever she wants to say. I don't think we can expect her to have her sons killers' interests at heart.

'Even as the victim it was not up to her to make this information public and whip up a frenzy.'

Are you for real?! Why on Earth not?! She's not an ethicist, she's a mother whose child was murdered.

If I were her in all honesty I doubt I'd have been as restrained as she has been, tbh.

The comparison was about how they were treated afterwards and the public feeling towards the two children afterwards. The actual murder was not as horrific but I still think it is very thought provoking.

I didn't say that, did I?

But the internet is a powerful tool. If you put something like that out there then it's not going to be long before it becomes public knowledge, and given that the details cannot be released as to why or where it is not in the public interest to know.

And I can see no point in the press interviewing the victim just to whip up a media storm and a renewed hate campagne.

Milly, it's upsetting to read that stuff again so I shall ask you very kindly not to mention the specific details.

I can just about discuss the case but not if the details are there in black and white in front of me. I get very upset for the rest of the day.

I don't think such details are necessary to this discussion. People can google them I'm sure, if they want to.

How is it her responsibility to keep tabs on the press and what they release and peoples' responses to all this?

So she should just keep schtum in case of a 'hate campagne'?

She's free to say whatever she wants. She did nothing wrong.

I'm a bit uncomfortable with the turn this thread is taking.

I can understand what people are saying about the fact that the kilers were 10, and that they'd only ever known cruelty and neglect and therefore, they had no moral compass to guide them, but to suggest that Denise Fergus is somehow...to "blame" for this breach of license being made public?...I find that...baffling.

I disagree that it is cultural difference the circumstances and the actual act were so different, not to mention the age of the perpetrators it's a ridiculous comparison.

imo they both should of been kept in jail till the day they die ,along with all the other murderes and pedos !!

It just shows how important freedom of the internet is, that it's not subject to censorship by individuals who believe they should be able to dictate who can/cannot know certain information.

Don't you think Jamies Mum is entitled to the same internet freedoms as you WannaBe?

I do think the Mother shoudl be allowed to be as angry and far off the ethics track as she wishes to be outside of violence.

The shoort them post- i'd actually be as scared of an adult who thinks like that as I would be JT who isn't back behind bars.

Had ds1 not received the help we got him I could see him being like these boys, albeit with soemone his own age as he is wonderful with kids. I suspect the shooters here would like to see him dead also? Before he has a chance to hurt? he won't get a chance of course as I won't let him have one, certainly not before adulthood which IMO starts at 16. SO given my assertion that he could do something terrible where is all the help to stop it?

NBot tehre is the answer, no matter how much you ask. It doesn't exist, he was referered to a specialist for children at risk of committing crime 3 years ago, twice- they never even bothered to respond.

I have every respect for Denise Fergus, who can blame her for how she feels? I feel sick and upset reading about what happened to James, how on earth does she live with it AND the fact that the killers were released. Unless you have suffered in such a way, you really shouldn't judge how someone deals with horrific circumstances like that. I don't think they should have been released, I don't think there should be a second chance for sadistic, brutal child murders, the children were above 10 and knew right and wrong.

Well Ilove I don't agree but at least that would be equitable I guess. Better one harsh rule for all than separating out children and wishing for mroe for them.

I didn't say she was to blame.

But there is now a very good chance that Venables' identity will be uncovered. and if that happens then there are potentially other people at risk, partners, partners' family, children etc - nobody knows where he lives or what kind of life he has/whether he has a family of his own now.

And if Venables remains in prison then the vijilanti types will go after those close to him, and they will not believe that they didn't know who he was and what he had done.

So whoever released this information into the public domain has potentially put innocent lives at risk.

Blimey, Denise Fergus shows anger towards her sons killers! What an insensitive, stirring woman she must be!

I would be shouting from the rooftops if I were her and my sons killer was back behind bars. Why should it be kept hush hush? Why shouldn't the public know what's going on?

It might only be a minor indiscretion but she never wanted them released - and can you really bloody blame her? If she wants to use this as a chance to stir up more public support for her then so be it. How can anyone blame her for showing her anger in public?

I would go further and say that their parents ought to have gone to jail too. Those boys were neglected and mistreated and turned into killers by their families. They have Jamie's blood on their hands just as much as those two boys.

Peachy love - yours will never be a killer, because he knows what love is. He is surrounded by love. Because you are a responsible and caring human being and have relayed that to your ds. Those boys never knew love and so never knew pity, empathy or remorse either and I'm just not sure that those things can be learnt.

wannabe also a risk to anyone in prison who looks like TV I would think.

I hear they are poised to mocve TV in seocnds if he is uncovered: ghod forbind there beiing any miscalculated gueeses at any opther prisoner same sort od age and col,ouring (and these things do happen, that whole PAediatricain / Paedoophile incident was less than 3 miles from my door).

If it was a crime that was committed rather than abreach of terms- would he have been actually tried yet? becuase if he's back in on accusation then I hope he does get a fair trial with ne breech of identity.

Rhubs sadly he has no emptahy or remorse- he does have pity and a lot of love though which we do trust in. Thanks you for your kind words, they mean a lot.

We did an ethics things at Uni once about should aprents have a say in these things (justice etc)(- all the non parents said Yes; the aprents themselvces were actually more hesitant, I think becuase we know we could not be rational in that cicumstance. How could you be? I saw how losing my cousin to leukaemia destroyed my Uncle (to teh extent he has spent all his life in and out of psych units)- adn that's with no eprson to blame, a 'natural' event: how much worse if you knew who did it?

I agree completely, Rhu!

It is not Denise Bulger's job to safeguard the identities of her child's killers or people close to them, or to consider the killers' feelings at all.

It's the role of law enforcement and the justice system.

Excuse her for not being sensitive to the needs of the people who murdered her children . . .

Get real!

they were saying on news this morning that he will go before the parole board in 28 days to determine whether he will be released. I guess that if his breach was serious then it won't become apparent until then.

The implication did seem to be that he's been reincarsorated within the past few weeks, so would imagine unlikely has come to trial yet.

Well if he hasn't been given a trial yet shouldn't we all just wait for an outcome? Or is a mistake an impossibility if you are one of these two?

SGM I get what you mean: I would say there is an increased likelihood he would have become a risk but that there is no guarantee- he may also have ended up as an advocate for abused kids, who knows?

'imo they both should of been kept in jail till the day they die ,along with all the other murderes and pedos !!'

sprouts what a thoughtful and considered post

I agree with Expat and Peachy wrt Denise Fergus. Her actions or words cannot be judged in a debate as they have no reasoning and are born out of anger and grief, as is natural and understandable. Whatever she chooses to reveal on the Internet is for her alone to decide.

What makes me uncomfortable on this thread is others claiming the same rights to simplistic and thoughtless calls for revenge and retribution.

Milly your posts in particular make me feel a bit sick. You posted the details in a really graphic manner, embellishing them almost with relish imo.
You have now gone on to tell us about some rather tenuous 'direct involvement' with the case.

You are not involved simply because you lived nearby, and do not share the same rights as Denise Fergus to pure unadulterated hatred and bile.

Peachy - your ds may not know remorse or empathy but that does not make him a cruel person. The important thing here is that he knows what it is like to be loved and to love, even if it is on his terms and in his own way.

Cruelty is borne from hatred, which is all that these two boys ever knew.

Yet they made a calculated choice that day. They had discussed it, planned it, equipped themselves. There are plenty of other abused and neglected children who make different choices.

They are accountable for their actions. They have never said sorry, they have never shown remorse. In the police interviews afterwards they remained calm and aloof whilst police staff had to leave the room crying.

To them it was all a game. Even the court hearing. If then 10 more formative years of your life had led you to this act - what hope is there of rehabilitation? Oh I'm sure someone will quote the Mary Bell case, but even that did not exceed the levels of cruelty shown here. I don't know what you do with child killers like these two, but the Norweigan way would not have worked here. I don't think the comparison works at all.

I'm afraid to say that I don't think they should have been released.

StewieGriffinsMom we discussed that in class as well, I completely agree. There was absolute outrage at the Baby P case but there was every chance had he lived and continued to be abused then he would have turned out the way these boys have. I think it is far, far easier to want them to be kept in jail for life, strung up or shot than to actually discuss how this can be stopped from happening again.