Irish Catholic abuse-

[tiredemma]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8060442.stm

Im surprised it hasnt been mentioned on here.

Very sad- Disgraceful

Think possibly it's so shocking that words fail most of us.

I have found reading about it very distressing.

I cant quite believe that so many animals people were involved in the secrecy of this.

it is very terrible and very sad....

those Industrial schools and also the laundries (Magdalen Laundries), etc....just so horrible, the suffering innocent children and adults were put through

Sadly, I suppose , it wasn't just the catholic and the irish that were at it....I think it was pretty much all over the western world in those days...not that that makes it any better, of course....

The fact no one will be named or prosecuted is disgusting. As a catholic, I feel pretty distressed knowing this has been and will continue to be swept under the carpet.

I think the problem of abuse in institutions was particularly bad in Ireland, FairLady, as the church had such a foothold in every area of life (even the government - still influences policy today, e.g. right to terminations).

It is horrific, the whole country (and many in the Irish diaspora) must feel such shock, shame, and anger. Incredible to think it was happening up until so very recently - it sounds so Dickensian.

Poor little children in the footage - it is horrific to think what they were suffering and that it was common knowledge. If the perpatrators are still living they should be facing consequences for this. What an absolute outrage for the victims, it must be such a kick in the guts for them. What sort of message is this giving to people fgs? That it's okay to visit abuse on children nobody cares about? These people are no better than the Nazi war criminals and they should be brought to account. Makes my blood boil. Heart rending for those poor poor people that this is the result of their efforts.

I actually feel really irrationally upset about it.

So angry for those children who must have endured the most hideous experiences of abuse, with the knowledge that they had no escape.

Its so distressing.

Shame on the Catholic church and all those who were involved in the cover up.

I hope they rot in hell.

oh I know that smellen, but, I jsut wanted to point oout that it wasn't the only place it existed...iykwim....

oh, and I do agree the perpatrators (sp?) should be proscecuted and face teh consequences....

FL, yep, sadly it is universal, and is still present tense rather than past.

It is sickening, very difficult to contemplate as a mother (not suggesting that people without kids are not as horrified, but YKWIM). There should be a campaign now to get any surviving perpetrators prosecuted - they are surely still a risk to children. I suppose, given the endemic nature of the abuse, that there are lots of people in high places in both church and state who would be involved if the truth came to light.

It's revolting that it was condoned and allowed to happen by the church authorities. I understand that when things got too hot for some individuals, they would be shipped off to South America, so unfortunately it is probably only a matter of time until systemic abuse is revealed there.

It makes me even crosser that some of the apologies issued in press statements on behalf of the church seem as if they have only been made because of the negative publicity.

This is one of the reasons (of many) why I am so anti-organised religion. No child of mine will ever be allowed to go to a church school / organised church activities etc.

Those poor, poor children.

I agree there should be criminal charges brought against those who are still alive.

I also think that those who allowed it to happen and covered it up, whilst they may not have committed the offences, should also be named, and held to account.

why the bullshit mn response and discussion?
seventy billion messages about Jade Goody or Jordan and Peter's marriage but 15 over this

ffs

Some have been prosecuted and received 1 and 2 year sentences, sometimes suspended because of age/illness - its a disgrace

I took my DS to view one of the schools (without knowing the history) and it was really eerie and had a horrible feel to the place

When it came out in the news I was so

It is utterly heartbreaking- and a prime example of why religious organizations have no place in government and education.

I wonder how European Law will back the decision not to prosecute?

You can sue to stop your name appearing in a criminal investigation? Does that work for bank robbery and murder too as it could be handy.

Surely an organisation that conspires/promotes criminal activity should be banned from existing at all.

This is no surprise to me at all. My parents are Irish and from a young age my mother told me people in Ireland "were terrible cruel".
She was so badly beaten as a child for being "thick" by nun's she still has the marks on her legs. She was also badly abused by her mother who used to terrorise her, beat her and emotionally abuse her.

My dad was also beaten harshly at school but his home life was better.

My aunt who got pregnant as a teenager outside of marriage was carted off on the orders of my grandmother to a Magdalene Asylum she was told the baby died, though a lot were sent off for adoption to the US at that time. My mother forged her mothers signature and got my aunt of the asylum, on to Dublin and then across the Irish Sea to Liverpool.

"in 1993, an order of nuns in Dublin sold part of their convent to a real estate developer. The remains of 155 inmates, which had been buried in unmarked graves on the property"

"The last Magdalene Asylum in Ireland closed on September 25, 1996"

It is a total disgrace that these people have been given protection but not surprising given the hold the church had in Ireland over the years.

Suffice to say I have not been a fan of the Catholic Church for a loong time

Goodness me ER, that's terrible
Thank God your mother got her out of there!

I'm actually surprised they got many people to give evidence, my mother certainly would not have, it was just the way it was you see. People did not descent, the church had that much control.
My aunt met and married an Irish guy in England and had 6 children, my cousins. Mother has sworn us to total secrecy, we mustn't let our cousins know their mother was pregnant out of wedlock. Seriously my mums more afraid of the disgrace of that than being angry with what her mother and the church did to her sister. The control these people had over their "flock" was really terrible and makes my blood boil.
I also wonder do I have a cousin somewhere, whom I will never meet. I doubt they kept proper records of their sordid dealings.

They bodies exhumed in Dublin in 1993 were cremated and then reburied, thus giving no chance for any one to identify a lost relative. Convenient huh

I am Irish, Elenor, and first let me say that I am not in the least cruel!

But I had a HUGE argument at the weekend with MIL about the cruelty of nuns in particular. MIL is very, very catholic ( to the point of psychosis IMO) and wouldn't hear a word against them.

My first memory of a teaching nun was being 4 years old and it was school break time. My friend and I were loitering in the classroom and this particular nun who was not my teacher came in and ordered us out to the yard. I had a toy in my hand and went to put the toy back in the toybox. Because I didn't go straight out to yard, she slapped the back of my hand.

I was shocked as I don't think I had ever been slapped before and was very, very upset.

Now, on the other hand, two of my aunts are nuns and they are the loveliest, most gentle women you could ever meet. They work with adults with SNs and treat them with love and respect.

I think a lot of women who were not in the least maternal were probably attracted to the convent as it afforded them a get-out clause, in those days you got married, became a nun or were "left on the shelf" . Similarly a lot of paedophiles were attracted to the priesthood as it was an excuse not to have to get married.

And these poor, poor children who had no friends or family, suffered the consequences.

A lot of older people over here bemoan the "lack of vocations" I don't know one nun under the age of 60, for example and on a recent visit to Poland I was taken aback at the number of young people who were nuns and priests, it was like going back in time! But I feel that the lack of vocations is a good thing, as I think as a people we are not particularly religious for the right reasons. I am very scared by MILs brand of religion which seems to be dogmatic in nature and leaves no room for things like love, tolerance and peace which you would think would be the whole point!

I am horrified at the lack of prosecutions and in particular, over the years how it has emerged that the gardai ( police) in many cases knew of the abuses taking place but left the investigation and punishment up to the religious organisations themselves! There is a photo in my Mums' house of my brother on his confirmation day, taken with the local bishop. At the time the photo was taken, that same bishop knew full well about a local priest who was serially abusing young boys like my brother ( fortunately not my brother himself) That man did absolutely nothing but move that priest from parish to parish.

In 1972 politicians officially separated the church and state. A lot of people like MIL were unhappy about this as they felt that Irish law should be God's law. What a lot of people outside Ireland don't seem to realise is that the laws for example, governing abortion are not set by the church, or set by the state, they are set by the people. It took us a long time to legalise divorce, not because the government were against it but because every time there was a referendum the grannies turned up in their droves to vote and the younger, more liberal people just weren't all that bothered about voting. And I am afraid I don't see that apathy changing at all atm.

If your cousins are my age, Elinor, I can tell you they will not give a flying f**k about who was born out of wedlock and who wasn't.

I read a book about the Magdalen laundries a while back, and one of the saddest thing was, that the women that died there were buried there, still a sinner (i.e. they had all been told they were there to pay penance for their bodily sins or whatever, and after they worked themselfs to death they apparnetly still had not achieved to get respect....can't think of the word used by the writer...)