Irish Catholic abuse-

[tiredemma]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8060442.stm

Im surprised it hasnt been mentioned on here.

Very sad- Disgraceful

For thise looking for numbers, this link says that 12,000 people have received compensation for abuse so far. And many, many are still waiting. Ireland is a small country ( pop.4 million or so) so that is a huge amount of people. And they only get the money if they promise not to sue the Catholic church.

To be pedantic, dittany, the Catholic Church is actually by its own definition the Catholic congregation. The remarks on this thread have been aimed at the Catholic Church and not specifically the Catholic Hierarchy.
There is no doubt that some individuals who happen to be Catholics have behaved despicably and indefensively. There are people from every profession who do the same.
They do not define the profession.

Would you be comfortable reading generalised derogatory comments about Judaism or Islam based on the actions of some of their followers (or leaders)?

WalktheLine seems to have run away.

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090520/ap_on_re_eu/eu_ireland_catholic_abuse

Walktheline, they do define the profession.

As others have pointed out, where other professionals break the rules, bring their profession into disrepute, etc., they get struck off, thrown out of the profession and have their licences to practice revoked.

Catholic priests and nuns who have broken the rules and broken the bloody law fgs, are being protected by the catholic heirarchy.

And it is obvious that people are not referring to the congregations (most of whom agree with us) but to the church authorities.

What bella said.

It wasn't the congregations doing the abuse, they were the ones being abused (well not always but usually).

To say that people criticising the hierarchy or the institution of the church, and the priests and nuns comitting the abuse, are by defaut levelling the same accusations at ordianary churchgoers, is bizarre.

The posts on this thread are without exception expressing outrage and horror at the abusers and the people who colluded to cover it up.

walktheline what do you think should happen to the absuers who are still alive today?

Should they be prosecuted?

Dittany. That shows you how strong a hold the Church has over its congregation. Imagine what it was like back in Ireland when most of this was going on.
My mum said it was normal. WTF

I never want to be part of a society which considers that to be normal.

ronshar, I meant to say I'm sorry about what happened to you mum. The effects of this abuse wil chime down the generations for many years I think. I look at my in-laws, both of them deeply fucked up people, very cold and controlling, My MIL is deeply involved in the Catholic church to the extent that she prefers the church to her own children and grandchildren, and my PIL hates the whole institution with a passion, yet encouraged me to baptise and send my child to take his first communion, because 'otherwise he would be ostracised', I do wonder how they ended up as they did, divorced (at my MIL's instigation) and lonely. I love living in Ireland for many reasons, but sometimes I think the people are as foreign to me as the Chinese, even though I'm only from 300 miles away.

Thank you ladies.
It is shite.

The RCC will attempt to sweep this under the carpet [again] given it's power [the Christian Brothers held up the report by a year with a lawsuit that successfully defended their member's rights to anonymity].

I hope that some of those who experienced such abuse will now set up something akin to the Simon Weisenthal Center and commence finding those creatures [I won't compare them to animals because animals aren't that vile] who have been involved in these cases and bring them to the International Court of Human Rights where they can stand trial for their abuse of the children that were in their care! If geriatric Nazis can stand trial for crimes they have committed so can geriatric priests, nuns, and monks!

Notice the new Archbish of Westminster didn't apologise yesterday? Too busy claiming atheists are very bad people.

His response to the revelations about this great evil? It took 'courage' for the heirarchy to face the facts and the report threatened to overthrow the good done by the Christian Brothers and the Sisters of Mercy.

oops, overshadow not overthrow.

Dittany - I agree with you - It is the feeling that they have the "Divine right" to do these things - that children can be full of sin and deserve such punishment. Where was the compassion?

As Chocolatekitten/walktheline are able to provide examples of 'nice' nuns/priests, could they not stop the beatings and abuse? NO because it was endemic and their superiors etc were complicit. If they were not complicit then complaints could be made and the problem addressed.

I'm sorry but this sucks.

And another thing! Most of the compensation has so far been paid by the Irish Government! Whilst the various Governments over the past 60 years or more have clearly been complicit in tolerating the RCC to behave in this manner - why isn't the RCC putting its hand in its pocket? This is, after all, one of the wealthiest institutions in the entire world!

Have to say, I find the idea of our government paying out all this compensation on behalf of these monsters really sickens me. Particularly as in these recessionary times they are slashing my and dh's take-home pay and the Catholic Church is so wealthy!
If I did something heinous and horrible today, I would be made to pay the price myself. Why shouldn't they?

It wasn't just irish catholic nuns or priests - there was a story in Scotland a few years ago about a Sister Alphonso, who stood trial for abusing children at the Nazareth Children's Home in Aberdeen, and I believe (and I am prepared to be corrected on this) Bishop Conti defended her actions.

I used to work with nuns. 6 of them. 2 were nice the rest were awful. They never ever abused any of the residents in the home, but they really were nasty people. It was all about show with them. They didn't give a toss if some of the residents had no one to talk to, or hadn't been taken out for a walk for a week - as long as the furniture in every bedroom was pulled into the centre of the roome every single day and skirting boards washed and carpets vacuumed and toilets cleaned with scrubbing brushes and bleach up to 8 times a day, then they were happy. We never had time to do anything at all with the residents. The one in charge (cow)- every day for 5 years she said to me
"saltire, I really don't like you, you're a lazy good for nothing girl, why can't you see that cleaning the house is important, why must you sit and talk to the residents, I'll tell you why, becasue you are lazy, you will achieve nothing in life". Every day i was in work, for 5 years.

Just from todays BBc website:

CofE at it

serbian orthodox church at it

This type of activity isn't confined to the catholic church by any means, we know that childrens homes in England in the 60s was rife as well.

the whole thing reminds me of a massive version of what seems to have gone on at haute de genarre in jersey as well.

it's nothing new.

I think the thing with what happened in Ireland is the sheer scale, the fact that it was an "open" secret and for so many decades, that so many in the hierarchy were involved and that the church told people to keep their mouths shut. that they protected the abusers for so long. To the apologists earlier in the thread - that is why people are so upset.

Cut and paste the link below to read a vile piece of head in the sand apologia. From the ever-irritating Mary Kenny. This article makes me want to puke (am sure dittany will particulaly 'enjoy' the sexist drivel about a woman who had a child with a priest) - someone else who wants to say that the abuse doesn't matter (children don't matter) because there are nice priests, nuns, and brothers.

Fuck the fuck off.

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2009/may/20/catholic-abuse-ireland

Thanks for the link charitygirl.

i found that article baffling, I couldn't see what she was trying to say at all. Apart from that she has known a lot of priests. Well big wows.

lol - yes, maybe that was her point - she is the top catholic.

and what is the point of the last anecdote - that posh ladies love paedos? that some people give abusers succour?

and...what?