Extremism in British Mosques

[Monkeytrousers]

here

"Mosques in Britain are spreading a dangerous brand of extremism that would be outlawed in Iraq ? says the Deputy Prime Minister of Iraq."

Oh I see, read MORE, not less.
The Express?!
It is all a bit clearer to me now!

lol

What is clearer to you exacatly?

lol...
It is certainly funny.

You certainly like to tackle controversial topics, I just hope no one has the nerve to disagree with you. I wont be drawn into this one.

I know you like having the last word, so I expect a response. Or maybe 2, as you can never quite get all you want to say in one post.

I like to discuss them yes, whay is wrong with that?

I don't mind if you disagree, I just mind if it comes from a position of ignorance. Call me old fashioned, but I like to have real discussions where I can learn something. I never shy away from saying I'm wrong - this whole thing for me is about that.

You don't like to be challenged, that's fine. I do and I like to challenge back. That's how I learn things.

I am a mum at home and post when I get the chance - somethimes I don't have time to get in everything I want to say, so I post again. So what?

It's you who seems to be spoiling for a fight here. All I did on the other thread was ask kyou to read some books - and 1 NY Times article, which was the last link. You don't have to, but don't follow me over here and waggle your pious finger at me for rtaking up the discussion elsewhere.

No, you have a superior attitude because you think you are more intelligent. You implied that because I was not interested in reading the books you mentioned, I was ignorant.

In case you don't realise, calling someone ignorant is rude and it is a really interesting way to try to get your point across. People that disagree with you are not required to read books you have read, I personally know a man who has written a book against the war on Iraq. I didn't feel the need to link to it because books against/for the war are a dime a dozen and you cannot possibly mention them all. I do know that I would never call you ignorant because you chose not read a book I recommended. There are many books on the topic and I just did not think you were a good enough judge of what I would enjoy reading.

I am not spoiling for a fight, when I clicked on this thread and saw you as the author (quoting yet another reading material link) I knew it was futile to even try.

And I can afford books, we just have different tastes. That does not mean I don't read often! You are pompous, presumptuous and are not someone I will waste any more of my time "debating" with.

That's your opinion. I like to have intellegent discussions, but I'm not averse to the odd innate one either for a laugh.

I didn't imply anything you told me you weren't interested. If I had called someone ignorant, it certaininly would have been rude, but I take great care not tomake such personal dergatory statements; great care, as I like to engage with people, not argue with them, about issues that I care about.

It seems pretty obvious, if anyone wants to have a reasoned opionon on anything, they need to consult many perspectives, which is all I was encouraging anyone reading to do. You took umbridge to that and read in all kinds of things that just aren't there, maybe becasue I annoy you and that's the way you feel things - but that isn't the same as being correct about me calling anyone ignorant - you included. That is a figment of your imagination. You are entitled not to like me, I couldn;t care less if you do, but you are not intitled to accuse me of saying things that I plainly have not said, and then ask me not to respond.

Don't debate by all means, but don't let your predjudice about who you think I am ("pompous and presuptious"; if that isn't presumptious I don't know what is) and your disliking for my views or posts become confused.

Both comments made by you. You can use all of the fancy words you want, but you DID say I was ignorant!

Obviously we disagree on this issue, but most people can agree to disagree. You threw a very inflammatory word like ignorance around and now want me to feel like I am blowing it out of proportion.

Saying something you say comes from a position of ignorance, self declaired ignorance (or not knowing, being interested, not understanding) is not the same as calling someone ignorant. I am ignoarnt of many things, saying I am ignorant in one sinject is not to say I am an ignorant person.

One is a statement of fact, the other is a slur.

I think you have mixed the two up.

stop it you two......

fwiw, i am too scared to send ds to the local mosque to learn about islam. df went there once for friday prayer. he was apalled at the things the imam was saying. truly apalled. (sp?)

I'm just appalled
The Daily Express hasn't lead with a Princess Diana/MM story?

What is the World coming too?

what actually are you chatting on about monkey? Saw you thread about mosque and still baffled on what your point is?

Hiya Pukka,

I think you'll find thats appawled!

DP said something interesting today, that it is such a tricky subject (having a debate about the negative areas of Islamic culture while not descending into or giving succour plain bigotry) but that liberals are going to have to engage with it or else the only ones are going to be the far right and tne BNB - and that would f'k thinks up for everyone.

bump

i repeat my first question. What are you chatting on about. Have you actually been in a mosque? Do you know any muslims or do you just follow what other middle class white people think? I agree with sugarmatches. I think you come across as someone who feels the need to use big words to make yourself look superior. Everyone is the same love. We just dont need to have swallowed a thesarus to say it

Dunno, Mehdismummy - post a link and see what comes up.

It is a debate that doesn't seem to be going away though - more hotting up. I would just like to think we can address the problems we need to now in order to help secure a peaceful environment for your kids, cos they are the ones who will probably be in the thick of it if we don't.

clearly some history here...otherwise why would the OP be jumped on with such acrimony for pointing to a press report?

but you obviously dont know what you are talking about! There will never ever be peace ever. Its just now the turn of islam. I ask again what do you actually know about islam? Surely to debate these issues you should fully understand about both sides. Not just what the daily express reports. I have been in mosques on loads of occasions and never once felt un safe. This is a minority of muslims. Every religion has problems. Every culture has terrorists. They dont have to be all islamic

I don't get it either Teuch!

Followed me over from a different thread, don't worry about it.

Mehdismummy, I don;t actually read the Express, my DP brought it in from work, as he is very interetsed in the subject and as a consequence I have access to tons of books about the whole Islamist issue - though I am still very ignorant of many things. I just wabted to have a kick about on here with people I've discussed similar issues with, like Pukka, for instance.

I am not going to post any reading lists - have promised myself

lol. May i suggest a book for you? Read the english version of the quran. I am not in the slightest bit religious but have a go? Nice pics by the way. Dc is cute. You arent a geordie per chance are you?

omg trolley are you actually for real or a nazi? Your comments are ill informed racist and offensive to muslims everywhere. You obviously do not have a clue about islam and should learn to keep your pathetic comments to yourself. That website offends me deeply and as my dh and ds are both muslim. You are a rude person and i will be reporting this to mn as racism. Does this mean my ds will become a terrorist? If i thought you were intelligent enough to read the quran i would tell you to read it but as you are an obvious fool. I wont. You vile racist woman

Trolleydolly, I set up a petition after 7/7 to ask the press to stop conflating the words 'muslim' with 'extremist' at every opportunity. I've also followed the fashion of supporting the Palestinian cause and being against the Israeli - all without knowing practically anything about Islam or what Israel is actually fighting for or against.

I know that most Muslim's want to live in peace as much as the next person, but also that they are tied to their faith beyond anything we in the West have known for centuries - they must submit to it, there is no dialogue and that all practicing Muslim's are by necessity fundamentalists, they have no choice - but not, of course fanatics ? but this element of submission, the awful treatment of women and the concepts of shame and honour within Islamic culture can be highly corrupting for young men. Hirsi-Ali asks if there is something inherent within Islam, it?s demand for blind faith, that the whole (Islam) always bigger than the one (any individual) ? that this needs to be addressed at grass roots, not simply later in it?s extremist stage?

Anyway, it's getting late now sorry - I promised myself an early night. Will pick this up tomorrow if you are still around.

Not a geordie,Mehdismummy, I'm from Durham originally - a pit yaker they call them round here

Islam as it stands isn't compatible with liberal democracy, that is for sure. There is a huge amount of 'immorality' within Islamic culture - it's treatment of women for one, homosexuals on the other. It isn't racist to say this at all. It sounds intolerent - but why should the intolerable be tolerated? Many things about Islamic culture are intolerable. To say Muslims are intolerable is racist - but it isn't racist to say that some facets if Islamic culture are.

jesus trolley, are you for real?
where do you get such ideas from? do you really think that a lmost a quarter of the worlds population would believe in something that was even af raction of what you profess it to be?
islam is the worlds fastest growing religion. it wouldnt be growing if people didnt see somuch that is good in it.

mt and i dont always agree on discussions about islam, but i do know that she is trying to debate it, not insult it, or be rude and offensive like yourself. there is no point in even trying to speak to you as you dont seem to want to engage your brain in your abuse of peoples beliefs.