Extremism in British Mosques

[Monkeytrousers]

here

"Mosques in Britain are spreading a dangerous brand of extremism that would be outlawed in Iraq ? says the Deputy Prime Minister of Iraq."

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trolley, for starters I'm not an "islamist" but a muslim by cultural tradition AND an openly non practising one AND defender of the right to offend practising muslims because I have a stake in it.

You don't. You are just making the very commonplace assumption that all muslims are crazed jihadists, thus not inviting any sort of debate with people like me or other practising muslims on this forum.

I'm not saying you can't discuss islam if you are not muslim. I'm saying that by antagoniszing muslims and shutting them out well.........you just sound like a very patronising neo colonial idiot.
And yes, I am being rude here.

I don't know why I'm sticking my oar in here, but I just wanted to say that, although to say it is a form of child abuse is a bit extreme, I do feel that indoctrinating children into religion is taking away their freedom to decide what to believe in as adults (it's very hard to shake off religious beliefs you where tought to believe as a child as an adult). I speak from experience here. It is brainwashing, and it's done because without it, religions would not survive.

I'm sticking my oar in too! I dont see it as indoctrination. I was raised a Catholic and my mum took us to church. It was her faith and she wanted to pass it onto us...she felt that it was her responsibility as a mother to pass on something which she felt strongly about. It was a faith which helped her through a lot of hard times...when I was old enough to choose, I chose to leave the Catholic church as I did not agree with many of their teachings......I was lucky. I have freedom of choice. It would be a far happier world if we all had this.

Trolley, I asked you to prove me wrong that you weren't on the thread to just make pronouncements about things you are already convinced.

In the Sudan instance, the reporting said that they were demanding she be killed, and showed pictures of people brandishing blades. A Muslim friend pointed out that they were chanting Islamic phrases exalting Allah, but none of the footage appeared to show any direct calls for her beheading. They may be wrong, but I found it an interesting perspective.

The world is a lot more nuanced than you want to accept. And I do find it enormously hypocritical for you to be complaining about extremism while using such inflammatory language, especially the child abuse canard.

There are many people on MN who have been the victims of abuse, and someone choosing a different lifestyle to you, and teaching their children things with which you disagree is not child abuse, and it's offensive and demeaning to real victims to term it so.

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I hear what you're saying karen, I'd never blame parents for teaching their children about their religion, as you said they are only doing what they think is right and best for their children, as their parents did, and theirs before that...

But I bet it's hard for you to shake some of the things tought to you as a catholic child even now as a free thinking adult!

I think the religious men at the top (and it's always men) know that they need to start religious indoctrination young, before children start thinking for themselves, to ensure their religion continues through the generations. Religion has no place in the public sphere, it should be a private matter imho.

Yes, totally!! But I am glad to say that I ignored all of them!! I have two dc's and have not had them baptised. I will leave it up to them to decide in the future. My dd (8) seems interested every now and then and does ask a lot of questions. They cover most religions at her school and she goes from wishing to be Budhist, Jewish or Catholic!! But I think it is important for kids to have at least some understanding of religion and different cultures.

I agree, definately have an understanding of religions and other cultures, and be tought to respect other people's right to believe whatever they want, whether it is Islam, Budhism, Fairies and Goblins or anything.

There is a world of defference though between educating a child on differnet religious beliefs and actually bringing them up to believe something, with all the dogmas that go with it.

OverMyDeadBody and LittleLapin - very good posts! Award yourselves gold stars

It's just harder to make an unbiassed educated decision about whether or not to believe in a higher diety as an adult if you have been brought up at home and school being told that God exists and to have Faith rather than question it.

(and rejecting a religion your parents have brought you up believing brings it's own problems, especially with regards feelings of guilt)

Hmmm....another Islam thread....

Why thank you karen!

sorry for my appaling spelling!

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Not 8000 years actually, Trolley, closer to 6000.

But TrolleyDolly....I went to a Catholic school throughout all my school years and I can assure you I am not brainwashed and I have always questioned everything!!

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I'll give you that one TrolleyDolly

arf. It doesn't actually say '6000' years in the bible. But creationist belief is that it's closer to 6000 than 8000. Just wanted to make sure you were throwing out accurate accusations.

had to come back before I am exposed as being less than accurate myself The belief in 6000 years is a young earth creationist position, there are those who are old earth creationists who have no problem with the millions of years thang.

as you were...