Extremism in British Mosques

[Monkeytrousers]

here

"Mosques in Britain are spreading a dangerous brand of extremism that would be outlawed in Iraq ? says the Deputy Prime Minister of Iraq."

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Whats that got to do with anything??

There is no 'official' church and bible guideline.

Blu, many Muslim women in the UK and Europe are still subject to the same cultural practices that are practiced in Islamic states though. That is our problem.

There is no liberal interpretation of Islam, that isn't allowed.

If this isn't true then has there been a sea change within the Islamic diasphora that we haven;t heard about?

And I dunno Blu,. I'm not sure if that's a bit disingenuous of you. Are Muslim feminists telling western feminists to bog off and leave them alone to sort out their own problems, or are they rather very disappointed in the cultural relativism of western feminists and their refusal to help them? Cos I've head it?s the latter.

The bible has a different interpretation based on which religion is reading it.
At least Islam in consistent.

That isn't a good thing NEGTB.

It's not even accurate. Irshad Manji is quite interesting about differing interpretations.

SWC Saudi women have been trying to get the driving ban lifted for some time, and it looks like it will be as there are a load of fed up male relatives who are getting pretty pissed off at having to make detours on the way home from work to pick up a pint of milk everynight as wives/daughters/sisters are banned from driving.....
There's no islamic reason for it, but there is no islamic reason for a lot of the arab laws, which westerners automatically attribute to islam as saudi is an islamic country innit....

who says?
islamic laws have remained the same for many centuries and if it is time for a change, then the imams can decide. and all islamic countries have different laws regarding women.
need i remind you all that women in britain have only been able to vote for 90 years.
maybe we just need to give them time to catch up. i believe that there are enough intelligent muslim women out there that can fight their own fight. they have to, or it wont be much of a victory.
either way, it is not my business how a person chooses to live their life or practice their religion. as long as we can all live peacefully together and for the most part we do.

This is just a wiki site about Islamic feminism. I've only glanced through it but it looks interesting. Hirsi Ali's name seems conspicuous by it's absence - but maybe that's becasue she no longer calls herself Muslim, I dunno.

The thing I find a bit unsettling about the current climate is that is is all a bit gung ho and punchy, all very 'macho' and I this is what I mean when I say I hope women's voices can enter this arena more. Hirsi Ali is by far the most prominent critic of Islamism and has earned a contract on her life becasue of it. This isn't an unusual thing to happen, and it happens in spite of moderate Muslims not supporting it, but maybe because they are so moderate in not challenging it.

But that's easy for me to say. I am not a member of a religion that will brutilise or inprison me for challenging the holy word of god. People are too scared to challenge it - publically at least, and if there are extreme materials in mosques that would be banned in Iraq, then that's a tacit threat - this isn't a world away, it's on your doorstop so don;t step out of line.

that is true, rules in certain countries don't mean that they are islamic laws, just that countries laws.

let's move away from the middle east, they are many countries in europe and the far east that are mostly muslim population, but they have no such bans.
look at the country, not the religion.

Islam isn;t a progressive religion, NEGTB, challenging the word of god, the literal word of god in the quran is illegal and punishable by death in Islamic states.

Any reformation will be extremely bloody.

The religion is part of it, you cannot ignore that, however uneasy it makes you feel. And if liberals don;t engage with it soon the only people doing so will be the far right, and if they begin to get votes we will fidn ourselves in a political climate very much like that in germany before WW2.

What bans are you talking about?

A ban on debating the quran? Which Muslim states alow this?

you are right monkeytrousers. some things seem to get blown into huge situations because people feel that islam has been insulted. look at that poor teacher and the teddy bear, some wanted to kill her.
i just think it is because so many muslims in these countries have such a negative view of the west. in which case, we have some responsibility in trying to resolve that.
wont be easy i will admit.

the driving ban i mean.

i don't see the far right getting very far thankfully. most british people don't support their views enough for them to do too much damage.
i think fearing that is like saying we no faith in our society. also how can we expect muslims in the country to not feel on edge when people keep on bringing up the bnp? are we not sometimes guilty of devision when we mention that they could be a problem soon?
having to live in a country with a threat like that must be painful. hardly the ingredients to a cohesive society.

See, this is exactly the problem Dawkin?s et al are on about ? this misguided feeling that we have been so bad to ?them? that they are quite justified in being angry and that we deserve it. That?s plainly rubbish. Radical Islamists want the submission of the west, they don?t want what we have, they want to destroy it. They don?t respect liberal democracy, they abominate it ? they stand against everything we believe in, feminism especially!

And a few successful bombs going off would rapidly change public opinion with regard to the right - which is of couse what radical Islamists want - they want a clash of civilisations.

I'm apalled at this thread and that's all I have to say to any of you.

Monkeytrousers, re: "A ban on debating the quran? Which Muslim states alow this?"

Turkey, for one.

It's not an Islamic Republic (like Iran) but it is a country with a 99% Muslim population.

re "Islam not compatible with liberal democracy"

Again, Turkey, for example, is a democracy whose shortcomings in the 'liberal' front have nothing to do with religion - some police abuse, a couple of authors dragged through courts because their books were deemed offensive by the state, etc. None of it is related to religion.

So, I would have to say that Islam is not incompatible with liberal democracy.

I am a lifelong agnostic bordering on atheist, by the way, and have no sympathy for any religion.

trolley - I agree with you that indoctrinating small children with religion is a form of abuse.

That is about the extent of what I agree with in your posts.

You have strong opinions about Islam, but you don't know much about it. You think female circumcision is a Muslim thing, for example (it's an Africa thing), or you think Shiites & Sunnis have different gods (they don't)

It is understandable that you feel deep animosity against Islam, the banner of the terrorists who bombed London, among others. However, if you are going to try and justify this animosity by attacking the religion (rather than the terrorists), you need to be better informed imho.

i think cotedazur has said everything to end this thread.