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Original poster

Ukraine cannot win.

234 replies

Benmac · 02/03/2022 15:00

I am so moved by the Ukrainians opposition to the Russian invaders.
However, without other countries assisting with troops on the ground it is inevitable that Russia will overcome Ukraine.
Europe and the USA cannot do that without starting WW3 and Putin knows that
So how much longer do we encourage Ukraine to hold out?
Should we not be making arrangements to get the president and his government out, let Russia take the country but leave all the sanctions against it in place.
They can have the land. Aid can be given to assist the refugees.
The sanctions will hit Russia hard when they get going. Let Putin then try to run Russia and Ukraine with no hard currency.
EU countries must take the hit and stop buying Russian gas which will slow money transferring in.
In an ideal world Ukraine would hold out long enough to force Russia to withdraw. In this real world thousands of civilians will be slaughtered from now and the end game will be the same

OP posts:
RedWingBoots · 02/03/2022 15:03

The US offered to get the president out. He said "no".

Ukrainians would rather die than let Putin have their country.

TooBigForMyBoots · 02/03/2022 15:05

The Ukrainians are holding out because that is what they and their politicians want. It is not because anyone is encouraging them. President Zelensky was offered passage out, he famously refused it.

AthenaPopodopolous · 02/03/2022 15:05

I think Ukraine will have to capitulate to Russia. I don’t think NATO wants them to join in any case. The UK will provide humanitarian aid and limited help for Ukraine nationals to bring their own close family here. But we won’t step in with military means. And we won’t see WW3 just yet.

nocoolnamesleft · 02/03/2022 15:05

The Ukrainian prime minister said he didn't need a ride, he needed more ammo. Respect.

Hellocatshome · 02/03/2022 15:06

So the Ukrainians should just let Pugin have their country? And what? Live there under Putin and become Russians or live elsewhere as a permanent displaced population? Neither will sound very appealing to the Ukrainians.

Hellocatshome · 02/03/2022 15:07

I meant Putin I dont even know what a Pugin is but my phone seems to believe it is a word.

MsTSwift · 02/03/2022 15:09

I agree op. They don’t stand a chance. As Dh said This is like standing there in the playground while a big kid beats up a tiny one and doing nothing. It’s all very well being brave but this is David and Goliath.

GrealishHairband · 02/03/2022 15:11

@nocoolnamesleft I love that quote from Zelenskyy. You really can’t imagine our equivalent saying similar…

MikeandDave · 02/03/2022 15:13

It's not impossible that a smaller country can beat a bigger country in a war look at Vietnam.

Libertybear80 · 02/03/2022 15:14

I can't see how they will win but the real war with Putin will follow. Russia will then be frozen out and cut off bit by bit undercover, using financial means, using diplomacy, using the net.

steff13 · 02/03/2022 15:16

@MsTSwift

I agree op. They don’t stand a chance. As Dh said This is like standing there in the playground while a big kid beats up a tiny one and doing nothing. It’s all very well being brave but this is David and Goliath.
The comparison of David and Goliath doesn't really work. But I agree that we need to step in and do more.
FrenchBoule · 02/03/2022 15:18

“Let Russia take the land”

FUCK THAT SHIT !!!

Hereward1332 · 02/03/2022 15:18

They can't win in the sense that they can repel an invasion. They can however fight an insurgency campaign that will sap Russian morale. Coupled with economic damage in Russia, it could foment a regime change there.

More likely is that the Russians will install a pro-Russian government (let's not forget that a pro-Russian President won the 2014 elections) and bring Ukraine back into their orbit. While I'm no fan or Russia, that would probably be less destructive to the Ukrainian people than a drawn out insurgency, like Iraq.

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 02/03/2022 15:18

True, Ukraine can't win.

Neither can Russia though.

BlanketsBanned · 02/03/2022 15:19

Are countries planning to send evacuation planes in to get these poor people out Putin may take Ukraine but its people and government will never give up Putin and his cronies will never be accepted anywhere in the world again and will be shunned forever.

cuno · 02/03/2022 15:20

I sadly think Ukraine can't win this war. But they're not making it easy for Russia. However Ukrainians won't roll over and let Putin take their country, I know I wouldn't if the UK was invaded, this is my home! The thing is though, once Putin takes Ukraine, it will be at a massive cost to him and his country, and I can only hope this will lead to the fall of his regime.

SleepingStandingUp · 02/03/2022 15:20

Yo u say with the current plan thousands will die but do you think get the president and his government out, let Russia take the country will do? President flees, Putin rules, do you think the killing will just end there+
They can have the land. and the people of Ukraine.
Aid can be given to assist the refugees. The one that manage to get out.

Aposterhasnoname · 02/03/2022 15:20

And when Russia want Moldova? Finland? Sweden? The uk? Do we just all move out and hand those countries over too?

Justcallmebebes · 02/03/2022 15:21

I think this will be another Afghanistan. Russia will occupy and a proxy guerrilla war will be fought with the West funding the Ukrainians as we did the Mujahedeen. How long it will go on for, who knows?

I also think we'll see a huge swing towards a hard right foreign policy with more hawks in power. Note Germany now massively increasing their defence spending and even Japan mooting the idea of having nuclear weapons.

I also think that the sanctions we are imposing won't stop Putin in the long run. Russia has valuable resources that the world needs so how long the sanctions last, again, anybody's guess. Pakistan has just signed a trade deal with Russia and others will follow because Russia will offer very favourable terms

TimeToMakeACupofTea · 02/03/2022 15:21

Why should Putin get a nice easy ride when taking over someone else’s country? Fuck him. I’m filled with admiration for the Ukrainian people and their bravery, and for their President.

AlternativePerspective · 02/03/2022 15:21

The truth though is that nobody actually expected it to have gone this far already.

Russia have thus far failed to take a single city, and they have lost nearly 10000 troops not to mention tanks planes etc which were just not anticipated.

It’s not up to us to decide what Ukraine should be doing. We’ve done enough of that in the past with Iraq etc and look how that turned out.

Cam77 · 02/03/2022 15:22

@nocoolmamesleft
The Ukrainian prime minister said he didn't need a ride, he needed more ammo. Respect.

It was a nice soundbite, but he will be following the instructions from Washington, which will soon turn to negotiating a ceasefire.

BlanketsBanned · 02/03/2022 15:22

Where is Pussy Putin in all this, you dont see him supporting his troops or getting involved, he hides away like the coward he is.

Joinedforthis22 · 02/03/2022 15:23

Ukrainians would rather die than let Putin have their country.

This! They think it's worth dying for, it might not be a mindset that we can understand but then are sovereignty and culture are not being threatened. Think of Churchill's "we will fight them on the beaches etc. Etc. We will never surrender"

BabarEnFamille · 02/03/2022 15:24

What about the 10s of millions of people who live there, they won’t all be refugees in neighbouring countries - how would they be supported?