Ukraine cannot win.

[Benmac]

I am so moved by the Ukrainians opposition to the Russian invaders.
However, without other countries assisting with troops on the ground it is inevitable that Russia will overcome Ukraine.
Europe and the USA cannot do that without starting WW3 and Putin knows that
So how much longer do we encourage Ukraine to hold out?
Should we not be making arrangements to get the president and his government out, let Russia take the country but leave all the sanctions against it in place.
They can have the land. Aid can be given to assist the refugees.
The sanctions will hit Russia hard when they get going. Let Putin then try to run Russia and Ukraine with no hard currency.
EU countries must take the hit and stop buying Russian gas which will slow money transferring in.
In an ideal world Ukraine would hold out long enough to force Russia to withdraw. In this real world thousands of civilians will be slaughtered from now and the end game will be the same

Should we not be making arrangements to get the president and his government out, let Russia take the country but leave all the sanctions against it in place. They can have the land. Aid can be given to assist the refugees.

This is so ridiculous I'm not even sure where to begin. Truly mind boggling stuff

Yeah, just give him the land. That worked out great for Georgia and Crimea 🙄 It didn't start with Ukraine and it won't end with Ukraine. Do you even understand what's going on?

@MikeandDave

It's not impossible that a smaller country can beat a bigger country in a war look at Vietnam.

At what cost?

Give him the land?! So basically it's fine, he can have Russia, and the next county and the next one?! Is this actually said seriously?

I applaud the citizens and their leadership. They refuse to hand their country over to Putin, and that's amazing.
Right now Ukraine are holding strong, and more countries could do with looking at their stances and taking them on if and when the time comes. They believe their home is worth fighting for, no matter the odds. Truly inspiring group of people!

Yes it’s amazing and they are so brave but can’t you see they cannot win? Russia is a world superpower

With respect if by your logic you say Ukraine can’t win where does it stop Russia will just keep on invading territory.

@TimeToMakeACupofTea

Why should Putin get a nice easy ride when taking over someone else’s country? Fuck him. I’m filled with admiration for the Ukrainian people and their bravery, and for their President.

He has 6000 nuclear weapons, he’s clearly Ill in some way and unpredictable. He calls the shots really. It’s not right but what’s the alternative WW3?

This is why I'm torn on the idea of donating to the Ukrainian army. I've just said it on another thread.

On the one hand, I don't want to fund arms, for obvious reasons. I'd be paying for killing machines and soldiers are human too. On the other, Ukraine needs to win this and isn't the aggressor, and it can't win as things are.

I'm interested in people's thoughts on this.

@Avidreader12

With respect if by your logic you say Ukraine can’t win where does it stop Russia will just keep on invading territory.

That’s a possibility. Hopefully Putin only wants Ukraine.

If he has his sights set on more then we can’t win because if we fight back then he will carry through his threats. He’s not right he won’t act rationally or with the fear of mutually assured destruction

He's clearly ill and unpredictable and will not stop at Ukraine. He's already made threats to neighbouring countries. Regardless of his nuclear weapons he cannot be given everything he wants.

The Ukrainians will win eventually.
But the country might end up divided in two, east and west Ukraine.
East a direct road from Russia to the Black Sea, includes Kyve. West agricultural agrarian Rural. Of course the west option is not economically wealthy.

@DrSbaitso

This is why I'm torn on the idea of donating to the Ukrainian army. I've just said it on another thread.

On the one hand, I don't want to fund arms, for obvious reasons. I'd be paying for killing machines and soldiers are human too. On the other, Ukraine needs to win this and isn't the aggressor, and it can't win as things are.

I'm interested in people's thoughts on this.

I'm happy to donate to the Ukraine Army, I don't like the idea of soldiers dying, however I want Ukraines soldiers to be as equipped as they can be. This isn't a battle they wanted.

@Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious

He's clearly ill and unpredictable and will not stop at Ukraine. He's already made threats to neighbouring countries. Regardless of his nuclear weapons he cannot be given everything he wants.

He’s holding the world hostage with his threats 😞

@Hellocatshome

I meant Putin I dont even know what a Pugin is but my phone seems to believe it is a word.

AWN Pugin was an extremely celebrated architect of the Victorian Gothic, whose reputation existed before P*tin did, and will certainly outlive him.

Just so you know why your phone corrected you

"Let Russia take the land"

Sure.

And when Putin decides Ukraine isn't enough and wants to invade yet more countries then what? We just tell all the people they should clear out and let him take whatever he feels like? When exactly do we think people should be allowed to say stop.

Its very casual to say that the Ukrainians should just give up their country or put up with living life under foreign rule.

If an invading force turned up here and tried to take Britain I can't imagine everyone being OK with just saying "sure no problem - take whatever you want. We'll just go elsewhere"

They may not stand a chance but they're willing to fight for their freedom as long as they can. Fair play to them.

Russia cannot "win". Even if they take control of the whole of Ukraine, then what. The Ukrainians won't forget this and neither will the rest of Europe.

YABVVVU - Russia cannot win and will not win

Russian soldiers are mostly young unmotivated lads who were lied to to get them over the border. They are tactically inept, running out of food and fuel. Their country is entirely bankrupt, currency worthless and now even China has cut them off.

This shit show cannot compete against the unified and motivated Ukrainians, now boosted by droves of extra soldiers from all over the world volunteering for them.

Slava Ukraini!

Listening to Chinese ambassador on BBC, why the fuck do the journalists have to milk everything for viewing numbers. Let the man speak, he is making sense. Stop the sensationalism and listen.
( needed a vent).

“Just let them take the land”. I’m afraid I couldn’t possibly agree with that.

Of course they cannot withstand the Russian army for long. But if Russia were to invade us and that meant losing our democracy, freedoms and right to call ourselves British, I would not want us to surrender.

We cannot give into aggressors (and we know what happened last time Europe did so). We stood by and did nothing when he took Crimea and so he decided to take the rest. So what next??

The other potential resolution is a Russian coup leading to a change of tack on their part but I really don’t know enough of Russian politics to know whether that is a possibility

They can have the land. Aid can be given to assist the refugees.

Quintus: "People should know when they are conquered."

Maximus: "Would you Quintus? Would I ?"

we have all donated to the ukraine army...they dont want toothpaste etc....lots of people on FB all getting busy collecting toothpaste etc...!!...they want cash to get weapons to repel Ivan....!!...we repelled them in Finland years ago....we are half Finnish....

They can have the land.
Do you even have a clue what the Ukrainians are fighting for? THEIR HOME! It is not just "land". They will not bow down to Putin.

@MikeandDave

It's not impossible that a smaller country can beat a bigger country in a war look at Vietnam.

Afghanistan too is famously unconquered.

Wow everyone’s a foreign policy expert nowadays aren’t they……