Fran Lyon has left the country

[milliec]

Message withdrawn

Good luck Fran! I wish you and Molly all the very best.

It's not a suprise that it's come to this. Poor Fran. I hope that she feels safe and happy in her new place and can enjoy the last weeks of her pregnancy.

The idea that she would take poison in order to poison her baby is beyond belief. These social workers are living in a fantasy land. What they were planning to do was child abuse - why aren't they up in front of the family courts?

Good luck, Fran, sorry for you that you've been treated so shittily, you've done the right thing and oh how exciting, you're away and your baby is safe and you're going to get to meet her soon. come back if you need any help or support with bfing etc.

I had a letter in the Telegraph about this and similar cases a little while back and I think I even suggested the going abroad option. It sounded the most wise. What I hate is the power these people have.

As soon as you've taken your child to A&E once too often you can be blighted forever. It's not so much that I don't want social workers to intervene when children are at risk it's the fact all the hearings are secret like in some communist tin pot state so breach rules of natural justice and secondly that a lot of those taking decisions are a bit thick and not as qualified as the people they're taking decisions over and there are not the right checks and balances and rights of appeal so it's state power at its very worst.

Good question, Elizabeth. Why weren't the Rochdale social workers prosecuted for perjury? They knowingly lied to the courts. If any ordinary person had done that, they'd have had the book thrown at them.

And I'd normally object to descriptions of any group of people as 'a bit thick'. But frankly there's no other way of describing someone who cannot understand the word 'if'.

"Stupidity" is a word that's been floating around my head in these discussions too, edam. Maybe it's not stupidity as much as blind adherence to and total love of authority and power. A person doesn't have to be rational if they are powerful enough to do what they want anyway. So they can ignore the "if" in Martin Ward Platt's report and forge ahead anyway.

The worst thing is that child abuse does happen but the way these people are behaving they are actually making it worse for abused children.

Good Luck Fran, I hope you and Molly get the future together you deserve.

These Socisl qworkers have affected the trust relationship so much, I used to spend my professional life blindly telling referrees that SS want to keep famillies together, now I'm scared myself of even the Children and Disabiltiy tam when I need them! They are a discredit to the profession and the whole thing is a sad, sorry mess.

Well, I'll have to be the voice of gloom and doom.

Much as I sympathise with Fran Lyon's difficult situation as she has outlined it, if the story that she has left the country is true, I feel, that by fleeing the UK, she may very well have jeopardised her and her baby's future should she ever choose to return here.

I hope the people who have supported her, both mentally and financially (someone has, because she stated recently how financially distressed she was) continue to do so in the long term.

Living away from your own country, alienated through lack of knowledge of another country's systems/possible language barriers etc. and fear of repercussions is an unenviable state in which to contemplate nurturing a new a baby.

But, maybe she is doing exactly what she planned to do from the moment Social Services were involved and she and her unborn baby became a media headline.

I'm sure that her advisors, aiders and abetters' all have their own axe to grind, and they may not necessarily be in Fran Lyon's interest.

I doubt anyone on here will ever be privy to all the true facts, but as individuals we will make our assumptions based upon information that is made available.

Whether that information is correct, we do not know.

I agree with Xenia - the level of power these scantily qualified and often dim-witted people have would be laughable if it wasn't terrifying. I've met a great many social workers through having severely disabled and adopted children in the famile, and more than 70% of them couldn't be trusted to sit the right way on a donkey, never mind make life-altering decisions about other people's lives on the basis of little or no evidence.

I'm sure it makes many decent parents err on the side of not seeking emergency medical treatment for falls/cuts/minor head injuries. In fact the one time I've had to take ds1 into A&E for a cut/bruised forehead I was treated with unconcealed suspicion by several of the hospital staff, starting with the receptionist . I could understand someone thinking twice about going again, if there were a few similar accidents close together (which is very plausible - IME children go through phases of swinging on doors/trying to pole-vault across streams/twatting each other with conkers on strings, etc)

This whole case has horrified me from the beginning. I can't imagine how terrified this woman must have been.

Good for you, Fran. I wish you all the best. Let's hope some day you can return home free from these terrible slurs.

For now, just concentrate on yourself and your baby.

MM

Nonametoday, what a very odd post, what is it supposed to mean? I don't understand the point you're trying to make.

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Well cod, ss haven't put their side and as I understand it Fran Lyon has given them permission to do so. The idea that someone who's just given birth is likely to poison their newborn via breastmilk is most bizarre. And it's not just her view, her local MP is concerned, several doctors have spoken in her favour. So I don't think we're all JUST taking Fran Lyon's word for it.

And like it or not, Angela Cannings, Sally Clark and Trupti Patel DID happen.

I totally understand the reasons she has left the country.

I also understood why she was open and honest with Social Services. She felt she had nothing ot hide and was completely honest, thinking if she wasnt it would mean she felt she did have something to hide.

I am not shocked by what has happened due to personal experience.

I wish there was less secrecy. The comment by the SS that only one side of the story has been heard is a way of casting doubt. Social services use the secrecy of the family courts as a weapon of power.

I totally understand the reasons she has left the country.

I also understood why she was open and honest with Social Services. She felt she had nothing ot hide and was completely honest, thinking if she wasnt it would mean she felt she did have something to hide.

I am not shocked by what has happened due to personal experience.

I wish there was less secrecy. The comment by the SS that only one side of the story has been heard is a way of casting doubt. Social services use the secrecy of the family courts as a weapon of power.

oops sorry for double post

I thought my post was quite clear Wickedwaterwictch.

We who use the internet and read the press will make our decisions based upon what we read and how we interpret it, dependent upon our background and knowledge.

We won't all necessarily reach the same conclusion.

Some conclusions may be correct and vice versa.

Some conclusions may be unacceptable to others.

Oh ok, NNT, my comments in caps about your post below:

Much as I sympathise with Fran Lyon's difficult situation as she has outlined it, if the story that she has left the country is true, I feel, that by fleeing the UK, she may very well have jeopardised her and her baby's future should she ever choose to return here.
SURE BUT IT WAS ALREADY JEOPARDISED SO I CAN'T SEE THAT SHE CAN HAVE MADE IT ANY WORSE, WHAT COULD BE WORSE, FRANKLY, THAN HAVNG YOUR BABY REMOVED AT BIRTH? NOT MUCH THAT I CAN THINK OF

I hope the people who have supported her, both mentally and financially (someone has, because she stated recently how financially distressed she was) continue to do so in the long term.
ER YES DON'T WE ALL

Living away from your own country, alienated through lack of knowledge of another country's systems/possible language barriers etc. and fear of repercussions is an unenviable state in which to contemplate nurturing a new a baby.
ERM YES OF COURSE IT'LL BE HARD, DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE POINT BEING MADE THAT'S ALL

But, maybe she is doing exactly what she planned to do from the moment Social Services were involved and she and her unborn baby became a media headline.
MAYBE BUT SHE HASN'T SAID SO UP TO NOW. NONE OF US KNOW WHAT'S IN ANOTHER PERSON'S HEAD

I'm sure that her advisors, aiders and abetters' all have their own axe to grind, and they may not necessarily be in Fran Lyon's interest.
ER, REALLY? BASED ON WHAT EVIDENCE?

I doubt anyone on here will ever be privy to all the true facts, but as individuals we will make our assumptions based upon information that is made available.
ERM YES OF COURSE.

Whether that information is correct, we do not know.
ERM NO WE DON'T

Were you not taught that it is rude to shout?

I think she was just showing the answers to your comments rather than shouting.

Thank you Awen, that rather illustrates my point about reading things on the internet and putting one's own interpretation on it.

Really? Funny, I was just thinking it illustrated how spiteful and petty people become when all of their "points" have been defeated and they can't think of anything else intelligent to say.

nonametoday, I dont think it does really. Although we all interpret data in our own way according to life experience etc.

Regardless, I guess my point is that we will not be allowed the full fact as the family courts are secret. I do know for a fact that some people working in both social services and as GAL's use the secrecy as a tool/weaponm to get what they want. How do i knwo, because infortuanelty i have direct personal experience.

Was that comment addressed to me Greensleeves?

Yes, of course it was. Who else might it have been addressed to?