Asylum seekers in small boats.

[randomer]

What is so dreadful about France that somebody would put unaccompanied children in a dingy and send them to England? I just can't begin to imagine what is going on. Is it a brutal regime in other European countries?

I should add that this isn't some racist rant. I understand that England and English is a draw for many, they may have relatives here and so on.

They have national identity cards?

The Calais camps are beyond dreadful. I've been. My understanding is that immigrants arriving in the UK are housed in detention centre- still not ideal but a million times better

Desperation.

France is brutal to asylum seekers. For a recent example, 3 were recently awarded compensation by the European Court of Human Rights for being left for mo the living on the streets without any means of subsistence.
www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/07/eu-court-faults-france-asylum-seekers-sleeping-rough-200702112426889.html

Asylum seekers living on the streets last winter had cold water poured on them by the police during cold weather, and other such things.

@sleeping, how vile.

France is brutal as said above, to asylum seekers.

The camps are there because there aren't decent alternatives offered.

And many people learn English as a second language, not French. Some countries do have French as the second language but far, far more have English.

If you'd learned high school Spanish and had to flee the U.K. would you stay put in France or Belgium? Or would you try to get to Spain where you at least could have a chance at getting by?

From what I understand, most of the people trying to get here do speak some English, even if it's not a lot. Most are not fluent French speakers either, although they may have picked things up from dealing with authorities.

@BSJohnson, I am not trying to be unpleasant, I genuinely have never heard of this?

They are not asylum seekers, they are economic migrants.
There is a greater chance for them to be send back by France & the European union than the UK... and it's cheaper for France to let them cross the Channel than to properly house and process their claims.

@DontGoIntoTheLongGrass

Desperation.

Desperate for what I wonder ??? 🤔

These people are ECONOMIC migrants

to be honest, I cannot imagine weighing up the differences about whether or not I did German or French at school for example. I'm not sure that is a reason. Due to our Colonial past there may be some background of English, whether we like it or not the language is everywhere.

People I have spoken to believe they will get a fair deal here. I'm just not sure any more.

I don't think an 8 year old is an Economic migrant.

(i) because the french treat refugees very badly. we seem to be more civilised on this front.

(ii) because many of these refugees speak english and have established communities and often family members in the UK. French-speaking west Africans, for example, tend to stay in France.

(iii) because many of us would do exactly the same in their situation. When trying to understand why people do stuff, a little bit of empathy goes a long way.

Desperate for what I wonder

A better life. Is that so difficult to understand?

What about the children in those boats?

I work in the field of human trafficking.

The reasons are multiple and no one size fits all. The question I never understood (before doing this work) is why not claim in Italy, Luxembourg,Belgium, or France.. ?

I have a few answers. From Migrants themselves.

Language. English is the most widely spoken second language in Europe. The ability to communicate even basically cannot be overlooked.

To many migrants, UK is still the 'Mothership' for want of a better word.. for former colonies. Therefore many many have either family or at least one friend here.

We tend to stick to international laws. To a fault. The asylum system is fucked and the immigration system more so... if you stick it out.. get married quick have kids double quick you can claim as right to family life ' which is OUTSIDE the immigration rules.

Compared with many European countries we are actually racially tolerant.

Last but not least .. said to me two weeks ago at a processing centre .. 'UK very good for people who make business.

I'll add one of my own though as I work at the more unpleasant end of immigration..

No ID cards . It's a real thing.

I work in the field of human trafficking.

Is that legal? Surely you shouldn't admit that on here?

Erm, I’m sure Disorganised did not mean she is a Human trafficker 🙄🙄. Immigration authorities have a variety of roles, not just at port. I know because I worked “in immigration” but solely in a legal context. Though surprisingly I also had a role in assessing claims regarding human trafficking- so I worked in human trafficking, if you like.
Sorry to detract from the OP!

Thank You @disorganised squirrel for your first hand knowledge.

I too, work with asylum seekers, including those for whom French is a main language. It must be really shit there.

Erm, I’m sure Disorganised did not mean she is a Human trafficker

I thought it would be clear enough that I was mucking about. hey ho. I'll put a dozy smiley face next time.

No I can assure you I've given up the trafficking.. Covid has wrecked my business model 🙄...

The children in the boats are 'unaccompanied minors' and become the responsibility of the Local Authorities where they land. Kent and Sussex are overwhelmed.

However from a purely human perspective.. if YOU has a choice between your child of 10 dying in a Libyan /Sudanese /Syrian camp .. of all the diseases those places are rampant with OR getting them to England where they will be fostered.. (the parents don't realise the traffickers will get them out of foster care and in to slavery .. to pay them back) ... what would YOU choose. ?

Unfair question, because it is beyond the imagination of most of us.

Personally I favour the 'take a naval vessel to France and pick up all those who want to come.

Park a 3 or 4 super tankers in the channel in international waters.. and use that as a processing centre to sort those with a genuine claim for asylum..

I like this idea because it hits the traffickers across the channel in the pocket.

It's probably an idea fraught with holes.. but I hate those who make money out of human desperation.

The division between someone fleeing for their political views for fear of death and those economic migrants fearing death from starvation is not so different. They will both be dead if they stay where they are.

The real solution is to educate at source. To educate that corruption in governments leads to economic disaster. To educate the people fleeing here to make their home 'like here'.. but that stinks if colonialism.. to some. For me it is the only solution.. because the end game will be, everyone 'here' and no one 'there' ..

Unfair question, because it is beyond the imagination of most of us.

I don't think that is an unfair question actually. I don't think it's that difficult a situation to imagine (if not fully comprehend). I think, like with a lot of things, people prefer not to try because it makes them uncomfortable and challenges their prejudices.

Do you have any sense of just how big the 'problem' is in terms of numbers (I've always assumed that any official figures would in no way reflect reality)? I've seen figures in the region of a few hundred a week, which sounds a lot but against the background of the entire UK population it's pretty trivial, and doesn't merit the pearl-clutching alarm it so often attracts. Of course it won't feel like that if you're an under-resourced LA trying to process the incomers, but that's not the heart of the matter.

The problem is actually being reported quite accurately for once thedancingbear .. The thing that was NEVER actually reported accurately was the number of Eastern European nationals NOT claiming benefits and just working in our support services in far less than minimum wage... and the HUGE cost of non-European immigration in terms of benefits, housing, medical care and education.

We never really had a problem with Europeans.. they just did the shit jobs Brits feel entitled not to do .. (and made laws to stop them claiming benefits for years leaving them pray to organised crime..)

Our 'cost' IS to North and Sub Saharan Africa .. with lack of integration, expectation to keep cultural practices and mores (think FGM, forced marriage, Patriachy, ) that has incensed the indigenous population of all creeds and colours...

I am actually very pro immigration.. but don't leave your shit country rife with corruption and weird (to me) cultural practises for them promised land' and want to start the same things here... that is something that really boils my piss...

If you love 'here' then embrace it.. don't try and make it the same place you fled..

If they were just looking for somewhere safe they would have stopped at the first European country they got to.

They continue on to try to get to the UK because we are soft and they know it.