Asylum seekers in small boats.

[randomer]

What is so dreadful about France that somebody would put unaccompanied children in a dingy and send them to England? I just can't begin to imagine what is going on. Is it a brutal regime in other European countries?

I should add that this isn't some racist rant. I understand that England and English is a draw for many, they may have relatives here and so on.

Ramomer
As someone who sees boat arrivals every day.. there is one answer to your question.

Language

The price of empire .

If you'd learned high school Spanish and had to flee the U.K. would you stay put in France or Belgium? Belgium, as they have structured plans for integration, including language lessons. Depending where in Belgium you settle, you can use English for most things in my 13 years of experience there.

Surface to say we NEED identity cards with fingerprints and iris scans..

The irony is that the 'send them back' brigade' are the exact same people who don't want this as it infringes their 'civil liberties' (I don't see the Dutch or Belgium's rioting in the streets for this requirement though !!!

The ID cards in Belgium require neither iris scans nor finger prints (and I only handed mine back when I left in October). It is a complete PITA to have to have the ID card with you at all times, even out for a walk, popping to the shop across the road, or the fritkot, or even over the road to the vet, or up the street to the chemist. It was lovely, having moved back to Cornwall, to wander up through the village to the PO with no means of ID on me.

However, I do think you are right, and we need ID cards. It is eye opening though, how many things are linked to the ID card in Belgium.

I’m always amazed at the generous benefits people seem to blindly accept are handed out to these poor people. It just isn’t like that at all.

I wonder this same thing.

We hear lots of people say that the UK is very generous to illegal migrants. But others say that's not true and just pushed by the right wing media to create conflict.

In the news they often interview people and ask them. Most the answers are "streets paved with gold". "You can make a good life in the UK". "Get and education". I saw one couple wanting to cross with a baby - they weren't fleeing war or poverty, her family didn't like him so they ran away to the UK. One guy said he wanted a nice car like all British people have.

But then I think these are just the stories the media wants you to hear.

I also hear anecdotal eveidnce from charity workers and those that come into contact with migrants, of fear and hardship. But many of these migrants will give a sob story to the gullible aid workers to get somthing in return.

So I'm still really non the wiser. What I do know is that language is clearly a draw. Working in the black market is clearly a draw. Someone is feeding a narrative to migrants that the UK will give you a home, money and an education - but I don't think this is actually what happens.

I don't think the vast majority are fleeing in fear. I think they come for a better life. I make that assumption based on the fact that the overwhelming majority are young lone men who appear fit and healthy. In many European states where they were welcomed, when they realised Europe wasn't the land of milk and honey, and its really cold in winter, a shit load fucked off back home. People truly fleeing in fear would not risk their life and their child's life further by putting them in a dingy and crossing a shipping lane. I've been in a small boat near a ship - it's fucking terrifying. If you were truly just looking for safety, you would just stop on Italy or Greece or Turkey not cross what 6 more countries before you settle.

As others have said, its all well and good welcoming as many that want to come with open arms. But what happens to the people already here that already arnt getting the support off the state that we should. Yes that may well be the government's fault - but unless we change the government and the way the country works, that's not going to change. And there is only so much money to go round regardless. You also can't ignore the issues they had in Germany with young migrant males of a very different cultural background.

I'm all for controlled immigration. Let's get in nurses, carers, coders. But I don't agree with letting anyone in just because they want to be here. We also don't know these people at all, most have no ID docs. They are who they say they are. They could be murders for all we know fleeing prison.

@disorganisedsecretsquirrel, indeed as I said earlier. Who poked their noses into other peoples countries first?

I still await a reply regarding the racist rant about ex service men, machetes, Brexit,abuse of young girls and luxury, free accomodation.

Lets see.........

migrants are functioning as commodities used to generate an income stream for people traffickers

I’m so conflicted over this. Any one that is prepared to put their children in dingys and cross the sea is desperate. No parent would do that for fun. These children should be given residency here. They were just born in the wrong country. Our kids were lucky enough to be born here.

However I’ve seen the the lorries getting attacked in Calais by men, it’s very violent and frightening for the drivers. Not all are fleeing from war. I don’t want those men here.

@Alabamawhirly1 “when they realised Europe wasn't the land of milk and honey, and its really cold in winter, a shit load fucked off back home.”
Have you got a source for that?

I watched an interview a week or so ago with the guy that jumped out of the kayak so his fellow travellers were safe.

He was a maths teacher (can't remember where from)

I was watching thinking how he'd be the type of person we could do with to inspire our next generation and educate them.

Discussing this with a friend she pointed out this was what the new system was mean to support and yet half the country is saying it's racist.

Made me think.

There has to be better solution (I dont have it) but I have had my eyes opened during the years. Things like Grenfell opened my eyes to how many refugees from places like Syria owned property and were drs and teachers etc.
I then started thinking about how these were the lucky ones who could afford to leave and set up elsewhere and what those who couldn't faced. For those it's death in refugee camp rather than in their homeland.

I think there must be cross over between economic and refugee migrants. After law. They are all doing the same thjng. Seeking a better life away from persecution.

@nancy75

Let’s just remember, the people most outraged by parents crossing dangerous water in dingys with their kids are the same people that fell over themselves to defend Dominic Cummings when he was just ‘doing the best for his child’ and breaking quarantine in the process

Good point

@Codexdivinchi, we cannt lump everybody together . What is the connection between the violence you saw at Calais and an asylum seeker?

I don't know I guess I don't want men capable of extreme violence coming here when we’ve already got so many of our own..

Many are economic migrants, which I get, I do but throwing bricks in to passing lorries windows and smashing them or putting obstacles in the road so the lorries have to stop then they are swarmed by a hoards of men climbing in and opening the doors to get in side is not on. I don’t want those men here why would I?

All women and children in the camp should be able to settle where ever they feel safe. Either here or France. The fathers/husbands should then be allowed to go through the process of settling here if they are able or capable of contributing to society - just like normal immigrants.

The men at Calais attacking the lorries - no chance.

I would guess not all refugees are directly or indirectly fleeing violence, be it civil wars, religious extremism (which is an a welcome export), regime brutality, and simply failed states with lawless anarchy and no personal security let alone health, food and water security. I do not doubt that many of these root causes still in some way trace back to some sort of linkage to former long gone colonial powers including the UK amongst other European and USA etc. However many of these failed states are seemingly insular from an external perspective and all about internal politics and seemingly over blown smaller differences within their populations. For instance many of the most troubling forever Islamic war zones are from my non expert naivety seemingly being fought by peoples of the same over riding religion but different extreme variations and so evidently enough to kill each other in a so called holy war or caliphate etc. It's not all Islamic versus neighbouring Israeli jews but simply Muslims killing each other (possibly a bit similar in concept to British and Irish historical issues) and so some including individual infants are escaping to northern Europe as refugees. Those in Calais France are possibly the fittest having literary fought their way through and survived travel from Sub-Saharan Africa, Afghanistan, Somalia, Syria and Yemen etc? Not sure what the solution is but I am guessing the no nonsense hard line Hungarian approach is possibly not ideal either. There is possibly fallout from Belarus to follow but possibly neighbouring former Soviet block eastern European nations are their go too than north west Europe UK and Sweden etc. The French should possibly not let their country be used as a transit point? Difficult dilemma to resolve but religion seems to be a factor as well as many war and corruption issues. We have enough jihadi child brides already and doubt many more may be drawn into it if the indoctrination continues in certain UK based enclaves while we continue to be caught up in this unaware of the background socio economic political and religious connotations. I am loss as to suggestions for solutions so hence some jumbled up thoughts above to ponder.

Asylum seeker
Economic migrant
Refugee
Violent man in Calais
Child in dingy

Not all the same.

If an agreement had been reached that asylum seekers would receive equal entitlement in whichever country they settled in Brexit may not have happened

Just a tiny bit of detail, each EU country is allowed to create their own "small print" for asylum seekers.

So in one country you might get a bed sit and food vouchers, while in an other you can get a flat/ house and money to spend as you wish...

Which country welcomes asylum seekers with a flat and money please? I have no idea.

To risk that journey on your own, never mind with your children, well things must be bad and I don't think I can even imagine what they must have gone through to think that it's worth the risk of drowning or worse your children drowning.

If we can’t help children in desperate danger and need, what are we?

You are incentivising people putting their children into danger. It’s not ok

Do you know how many immigrants keep the NHS afloat and contribute to the welfare state? Where those lovely old British pensioners would be without young men and women from Eastern Europe and the Philippines wiping their bottoms, feeding them and paying tax and National Insurance to contribute towards their charges’ pensions

Do you like, know the difference between legal and illegal immigration? I know some like to conflate the two, but it’s very, very different (as someone who is, actually, a legal immigrant)

You are incentivising people putting their children into danger. you are assuming rather a lot there.

So where is the country with the flats and money please?

Most of them are young men with many from Africa. Very large groups of young men are not aways a great thing to add to a nation because they tend to need mothers and sisters around to civilise them - i t is quite a dangerous mix to allow large numbers. One per village is fine but it is the en masse nature of them which can cause problems as Sweden and Germany have found. There are some teenage children and even smaller children. If their parents put them on the boat they are arguably child murderers.

They are all safe in France so are all economic migrants and law breakers. If we do not start stopping this then more of them will die so whatever side you are on in this you probably don't want them paying lots of money to their handlers the traffickers surely?

There are some teenage children and even smaller children. If their parents put them on the boat they are arguably child murderers.
Presumably you could make the same argument for all the families that stay behind in war torn countries? Ridiculous. The idea that you get in a boat to cross the water to hurt your family is utterly stupid.

Young men are not automatically dangerous or dreadful.

They are all safe in France so are all economic migrants and law breakers

Are you completely insane?

Were parents who throw their babies from the cattle trucks on their passage to Auschwitz child murderers?