Asylum seekers in small boats.

[randomer]

What is so dreadful about France that somebody would put unaccompanied children in a dingy and send them to England? I just can't begin to imagine what is going on. Is it a brutal regime in other European countries?

I should add that this isn't some racist rant. I understand that England and English is a draw for many, they may have relatives here and so on.

"The Strange Death Of Europe" by Douglas Murray is worth a read.

Some massive generalisations here.

France isn’t dreadful, but Britain is far better in its treatment of economic migrants and the benefits provided. Housing and excellent free healthcare is a massive draw. Britain is also comparatively a very tolerant country.

It is also easier to ‘disappear’ if an asylum claim fails.

SAme as every year. I think France could do more to protect the people leaving their shores. Most these people won,t get to stay in uk as they would have to stay in first save country and if they have traveled through several continants then thats not really the case. But imagine the desperation to pay to travel in a raft to cross the busiest Chanel of Britain.

J*enandFlo
*
As much as I have sympathy for both Asylum seekers and Economic migrants.. you are sadly right.. our deplorable checks and balances on those in the country ( aided by lack of biometric ID cards ) just adds to the chaos..

This is how simple it is.. just find a European who is leaving the UK and buy there National Insurance number.. become them...

Get a job, as them.. (if you are black or brown choose a black or brown European) .. simply take over their identity . How often do you need a passport here to live an average life ? In time you can get a DL .. (I will stop now because I don't want to create a 'how to book on identity fraud')

Surface to say we NEED identity cards with fingerprints and iris scans..

The irony is that the 'send them back' brigade' are the exact same people who don't want this as it infringes their 'civil liberties' (I don't see the Dutch or Belgium's rioting in the streets for this requirement though !!!

The more we accept, the more who will attempt the dangerous journey. Vicious circle.

I'm interested to know what would YOU do if a dinghy was in the channel .. filled with 17 people, taking on water.. just crossed into UK waters.. and you were the captain of the ship that spotted them.. with 6 of the 17 under 5 ...

Two choices. (Because THIIS is maratime law).

Pick them up . (they will be legally obliged to set them down in the UK)

OR

Leave them to drown. (That's against maritime law - but you could claim not to have seen them)

If it makes you feel any better the system is obviously working, because the guy in my corner shop has just been deported. Nice work.

I think people discount the language issue because it's hard to go anywhere in the world as a native English speaker and not find someone who understands some English, unless you're really off the beaten track.

To bring a country where you understand nothing and have no way to be understood is almost impossible. To have at least some understanding of the language/ability to communicate verbally makes a huge difference to how you can function there.

This isn't the o my factor, but I think it's really hard for many Brits to understand, because it's really hard for them to be entirely unable to communicate. And learning languages isn't a quick process for most people.

I suppose the issue has changed somewhat with Brexit. If the UK is no longer part of the Dublin Convention, then no EU state is obliged to accept back a non-national who has travelled to the UK from their country. So, for those 27 member states any argument on the basis of EU countries being safe, made by a third country would be moot in respect of any obligation. I personally think any state in which a child is present (whether they are there legally or no) is responsible for the safety and welfare of that child. Adults too. One may argue to what degree, and the state has a right to assess returning them to their country of origin. Or last EU state for a current EU member state.

Of course, I understand the discussion happening in the UK. But to what outcome? Even, if it Maritime Law to rescue those in danger on the sea, it is also something which is a clear cut moral obligation, I think.

There remains the bilateral Le Touquet agreement with France. I wonder if the French will re-assess how beneficial this is to France and what conclusion they would reach. If they are not obliged to accept any non-national migrants back anyway, does the UK benefit much more from the current situation as it now stands.

I think we are very fortunate and should thank our lucky stars to be born in a certain time and place.

Park a 3 or 4 super tankers in the channel in international waters

You know it is the busiest waterway in the world right?
Where would you suggest, while not violating maritime law and paying to have everyone's charts updated at £40 a time.

It strikes me as the perfect solution to the crop picking problem. Any migrants that arrive illegally get to pick fruit/veg for minimum wage to pay for their keep.

@cdtaylornats

It strikes me as the perfect solution to the crop picking problem. Any migrants that arrive illegally get to pick fruit/veg for minimum wage to pay for their keep.

No no my friend.. didn't you know .. we don't NEED any low skill labour.. Grant from Peckham is on the edge of his seat.. just waiting to to be offered the chance to go and pull Broccoli out of a field in Norfolk for minimum wage .. whilst his sister is desperately hoping to get that care worker position... don't you ever listen to the Guru of all matters immigration. Pritti Patel ? (Pritti in name but not in nature ) ?

I don't think a toddler would be much good as a fruit picker.

Imagine your own child was running across Europe alone. His cousin/neighbour/friend of the family is in the uk. He phones you and says he is in Calais, terrified, alone and people are not kind and the tents have been cleared again and he is so tired. Do you tell him to take a boat to the place you know or stay where he is?

It can take years to attain refugee status. Until then you cannot work.

There are always going to be people worse off than us. We let them in, we run the risk of neglecting those already here.

We need to take a stand and return them immediately. The sooner we do that, the sooner they’ll stop trying.

If we can’t help children in desperate danger and need, what are we?

@Itisbetter

If we can’t help children in desperate danger and need, what are we?

It’s not just children though is it? And we can’t just keep the children and send the adult back.

Priti Patel, 7th August.

I am working to make this route unviable.

This involves:

1. Stopping the boats leaving France in the first place
2. Intercepting boats and returning those attempting to make a crossing

This is complex to do and we face serious legislative, legal and operational barriers.

and

We also need the cooperation of the French to intercept boats and return migrants back to France.

I know that when the British people say they want to take back control of our borders – this is exactly what they mean.

Response by Gerard Arnaud (previous french ambassador to the U.S.)

Actually, Madam Secretary, as you may know, the cooperation with France was enshrined in the EU rules. You’ll have to negotiate a new treaty with your neighbor.

The Treaty of Sandhurst (Jan 2018, both still EU members) says on return of migrants that maritime law would apply to port of safety. Also that the Dublin Regulation would apply. Of course, Dublin Regulation is only for EU states.

I was chatting with someone about this. Some of these issues came up. Things like the Iraq war and exporting weapons and helping other countries creating war zones cause refugees and migrants. Yemen is being devastated. I'm sure there are other places which have been 'helped' to make life unbearable and unsafe for those living there. Is there a moral obligation to help people who have been so affected by your involvement in their misery? I don't what the answer to this is. Would it be best atoned for by not exporting weapons and training at the very least? Is there a responsibility towards those people? I know dealing in death and with tyranny makes megabucks. It is dirty money is my opinion.

twitter.com/GerardAraud/status/1292121182729273345

@RunningFromInsanity presumably if you are talking about mothers/fathers with children helping the children involves helping the parents too?

I think we should help as many as we can and we aren’t doing that.

[quote Itisbetter]@RunningFromInsanity presumably if you are talking about mothers/fathers with children helping the children involves helping the parents too?

I think we should help as many as we can and we aren’t doing that.[/quote]
Who decides how many we can help?

Where do we house them when we don’t have enough housing for our own citizens?
Who feeds them when food bank usages
has dramatically increased recently?

Do we give them benefits and UC when our own citizens are struggling to stay afloat?

When do we start turning them away? There will always be one more person in need, one more child, one more family desperate for help.

A mother with 4 children who all speak little English is not going to get a job, it’s not practical or financially viable. So she will be entitled to benefits, housing etc.

And then the next family will come. And the next.

You could make that argument about anything. I think we can help more. I think we should help more. You don’t. I’m not sure what more is to be said.

It's all about available resources. The UK does not have enough to sustain the ever growing migrant population.
Or have we already forgotten what happened when Europe (Germany) opened its borders a few years ago?
We can't save them all...

So how many people could you help?