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Original poster

Alfie Evans 6

999 replies

CamomileTeaShotofVodka · 26/04/2018 01:49

Following on from the last thread. If there's one already please do delete this one.

Remember not to speculate or make negative comments about the family or discussions will be stopped.

Thoughts are with Alfie tonight Star

Such an important and sensitive topic.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
bullyingadvice2017 · 26/04/2018 18:14

What's jibbing?

TheDrinksAreOnMe · 26/04/2018 18:14

My concerns are really for the staff at AH tbh

crunchymint · 26/04/2018 18:14

Tansie Please do not insult everyone who comes from a disadvantaged background.

Rhodiolia · 26/04/2018 18:16

Sounds like he has some decent advice and is really trying hard to make things better for Alfie's last days.

andthislittlepiggywent1 · 26/04/2018 18:16

@BigPinkBall

This article from the Guardian ends with an interesting (although dated now) summary of significant cases where the courts have ruled on disputes between parents and the courts over children's medical care: www.google.co.uk/search?source=hp&ei=xAXiWtHKBsHSkwWCq7HwAw&q=Guardian+Charlotte+wyatt+child+b+jaymee
In some of the cases, the parents were fighting to refuse treatment which doctors considered had a good chance of improving the child's life. I haven't read the judgments and I'm sure the parents had good reasons, but I doubt that, for instance, the first example of Child B is what the religious right have in mind when they advocate for parental rights.

Duckland · 26/04/2018 18:17

It does look like he has been advised to say this but I truly hope Alfie's parents and the AH can rebuild some form of relationship and plan to make Alfie's passing as gentle and dignified as possible. Keeping them all in my thoughts.

Dancingleopard · 26/04/2018 18:18

tansie1 do you know TE personally then?

MrsOH2004 · 26/04/2018 18:18

If that's his latest message I hope he can get some quality time with Alfie, I can't even begin to imagine how they are feeling right now, I hope he's been advised to stop the fight and to put Alfie first SadThanks

camelliasinensis · 26/04/2018 18:19

I saw the comment the other lad's mum wrote and it's incredibly ironic

whywhywhywhywhyyy · 26/04/2018 18:20

It sounds like they've had a meeting with AH and AH has quite explicitly said that one of the reasons they can't help them take Alfie home right now is because of the dickheads threatening the staff.

TE is now trying to rectify the situation (and I suspect has had some help from his lawyers in writing the statement).

CocoaGin · 26/04/2018 18:22

This reply has been deleted

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Rhodiolia · 26/04/2018 18:22

Sadly the AA havent seem to have heard his latest press statement nor has it been posted there, they are carrying on as usual.

MrsOH2004 · 26/04/2018 18:23

Do you think a scan could also have been done like he asked? Would results come back this quickly? Would he have had to be intubated again?

Lougle · 26/04/2018 18:23

There have been a couple of questions raised that might be useful to answer (although I don't consider myself an expert in any way). The question of when withdrawing nutrition becomes starvation is really about when nutrition is a benefit to the patient or not. Ultimately, there will be situations when a decision has been made that no more can be done for a patient, and because their brain stem is fully or partially intact, despite horrific brain injury, damage or disease, they will continue to function at a base level as long as they are cared for sufficiently and given fluids and nutrition. In those cases, when doctors and relatives agree that the patient would not want to be held in a state of minimal consciousness, treatment would be withdrawn, and the patient would die, in time, of organ failure. Famously, Tony Bland was in a persistent vegetative state, and the doctors, supported by his parents, applied for the right to withdraw fluid and nutrition, so leading to his death. There is legal precedence for doctors to gain permission to withdraw nutrition against the wishes of relatives, and also for relatives to petition the Courts for cessation of treatment, despite doctors feeling that the patient hasn't exhausted all treatment options. Paul Briggs' wife went to the court of protection and won the right to have her husband's ventilation ended, because she knew he wouldn't want it, for example, despite the doctors disagreeing.

So in a nutshell, when it forms a part of a plan of care, it isn't starvation. Forcing nutrition into an already strained body is not kind or beneficial. The food will either not be digested, sitting in the stomach until enough accumulates to cause a vomit, with potential aspiration into the lungs, or if there is an attempt to digest, blood that should be trying to keep the blood pressure up and the heart going and the oxygen moving, is having to go to the stomach that should be shut down, to get the engine going, which means energy is diverted to the digestive system that should be working at keeping him breathing, etc.

BigPinkBall · 26/04/2018 18:28

@andthislittlepiggywent1 thank you, that was a very interesting article, I think religion has a lot to answer for in these cases Sad

Panda81 · 26/04/2018 18:29

That's the first time I've seen him with a written statement. I'd be very surprised if he wrote that himself and expect it's part of talking with AH about getting Alfie home. Hopefully AA will take it on board though.

goodbyestranger · 26/04/2018 18:30

whywhyetc yes exactly.

user1471450935 · 26/04/2018 18:31

I know some posters/people have said about doctors having the final say, but I would say that is so very rare, I know we have had 2 court cases in 12 months.
But I wonder have many there have been in last decade?
I have wondered from thread 3 if I should post about our experience in the final meeting where we agreed to turning of life support. Seeing as the threads die, I don't think I am disrespecting my brother, and please report it if you don't want it to stand or it breaks guidelines

we where asked to attend a meeting with the head of ICU and my brother's Consultant, we had already had 3 in the three days they tried to treat his head injuries. The consultant said all scans and tests of brothers responses showed catastrophic brain injuries, which where incompatible with life, there was stem activity but it was declining and they feared it may take days or weeks for it to die completely.
We asked what they thought was best for Phil, they said to turn of life support and allow him to pass away. We asked for time to think, we got an hour I think, in a doctors office. The head of neurological surgery at the hospital was called and went through the process of how they could know Phil was dying, so 2 Doctors had agreed the findings of the scans, then another had independently assessed them and agreed, finally he and the head of ICU had signed of the results, but we could ask for a second opinion and we could have all the time to decide.
The head of ICU repeated it was up to us, they really didn't pressure us or rush our decisions, even said we could say no and wait a week and review, we asked to see the scan, it was brought and explained in clear layman's terms and then we where shown a scan of a functioning brain. We must of wasted 3 hours of their invaluable time, but they carefully answered all our dumb questions, to the point where we all just said yes we agree to turn off life support, but can we donate his organs please

Sorry its long and abit woolly but its been 27 years now, and I will never forget the ladies face or voice when see said they believe my brother could no longer live. So please realise Doctors don't make these decisions on a whim or for fun, and please realise parents/next of kin aren't murderers/heartless bastards when we make these decisions, they are backed by best medical ideals and from a place of love (heartbroken love, but one of deep caring that your doing your best for your loved one).

Sorry its long and distressing, but few people every tell you what it is like, and if people realise then maybe less would go on FB and SM writing such crap about nothing they know about.
Sorry please delete if necessary, but I needed to say the above to countered the rubbish that AA and others have allowed to be the norm.

Rhodiolia · 26/04/2018 18:31

Panda, so far they haven't! :(

YoureAllABunchOfBastards · 26/04/2018 18:31

AA now think TE is being blackmailed. I give up.

goodbyestranger · 26/04/2018 18:33

These pre-conditions to getting Alfie home buys everyone peace until any transfer can be arranged and considered safe. That's certainly best for Alfie, who of course might not make it through that many days.

GinSoakedItchyPony · 26/04/2018 18:34

"TE on a message read to the press saying no more interviews from him or press statements, they want privacy, thanked Alder Hey for their help and want everyone to leave and go back to their every day lives. Wow.'

Wow indeed.

They're just covering this now on NW Tonight (BBC).

I wonder if this also includes doing FB live?

goodbyestranger · 26/04/2018 18:35

Best for the parents too, to not feel they're fighting, finally. Even if Alfie dies sooner rather than later. They'll have said goodbye peacefully. Hopefully that will be the upshot anyhow.

Panda81 · 26/04/2018 18:38

rhodelia yes just seen they are also saying it's not his statement and they've blackmailed him...

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